History: Council of Constance (Session 13) and Communion under both kinds

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At Session 13 of the Council of Constance, Communion under both kinds for laity and non-celebrating clergy was made liturgical law:
Session 13—15 June 1415

Condemnation of communion under both kinds, recently revived among the Bohemians by Jakoubek of Stribro

… this present general council of Constance, legitimately assembled in the holy Spirit, wishing to provide for the safety of the faithful against this error, after long deliberation by many persons learned in divine and human law, declares, decrees and defines that, although Christ instituted this venerable sacrament after a meal and ministered it to his apostles under the forms of both bread and wine, nevertheless and notwithstanding this, the praiseworthy authority of the sacred canons and the approved custom of the church have and do retain that this sacrament ought not to be celebrated after a meal nor received by the faithful without fasting, except in cases of sickness or some other necessity as permitted by law or by the church. Moreover, just as this custom was sensibly introduced in order to avoid various dangers and scandals, so with similar or even greater reason was it possible to introduce and sensibly observe the custom that, although this sacrament was received by the faithful under both kinds in the early church, nevertheless later it was received under both kinds only by those confecting it, and by the laity only under the form of bread. …

That no priest, under pain of excommunication, may communicate the people under the forms of both bread and wine

This holy synod also decrees and declares, regarding this matter, that instructions are to be sent to the most reverend fathers and lords in Christ, patriarchs, primates, archbishops, bishops, and their vicars in spirituals, wherever they may be, in which they are to be commissioned and ordered on the authority of this sacred council and under pain of excommunication, to punish effectively those who err against this decree. They may receive back into the church’s fold those who have gone astray by communicating the people under the forms of both bread and wine, and have taught this, provided they repent and after a salutary penance, in accordance with the measure of their fault, has been enjoined upon them. They are to repress as heretics, however, by means of the church’s censures and even if necessary by calling in the help of the secular arm, those of them whose hearts have become hardened and who are unwilling to return to penance.

From this point on the council becomes a duly convened ecumenical council, all previous sessions being ultra-vires.
But, the EWTN documentation on the Council says that Sessions 2-13 were abrogated by Popes Gregory XII and Martin V:
While no council, not even Ecumenical, has authority to depose a Pope, the two men who were deposed were both Anti-Popes. The true Pope was Gregory XII, who resigned rather than being deposed. He it was who authorized the sessions beginning on 4 July 1415, and declared all previous sessions (the first thirteen) null and void. Martin V ratified the succeeding sessions at the conclusion of the Council.

Denzinger 1198-1200 reports, though, that Martin V approved the decision from Session 13, several years later, in June of 1425. An English translation can be found at #626 here.

Is this accurate? Session 13’s decisions on Communion under both kinds were ratified by Pope Martin V? Just trying to get my facts/history straight!
 
Well, I don’t know about you but what would you have people do if they lived in a place where alcohol was illegal?

I think its great that catholics are not bound today to take both kinds.

And, for the sake of so many alcoholics, its what you may consider “mercy” to them I suppose.

But, I have no idea what the import is of all this. Just happy that there are more partaking that want to and can, without that part if they can not.

No one who believes deeply about the instruction Jesus gave should have that on their head. One of three things I would agree with catholics about if God exists, would be their seriousness on the Eucharist.

I can’t see picking that one thing apart, as long as your church has the authority to allow it under one kind. To me, that is as bad as those who say it is symbolic.

Because it was your church that said it was not.

So, at what point are you going to be any different than those who protest your church?

I am not saying you are, but it makes me wonder because I can read the passages about his flesh and blood, and never see in them a demand to do things in any precise manner other than they MUST believe it REALLY is his flesh and REALLY is his blood.

I don’t see in there that it must be bread, and must be wine.

But, it could be I lack the ability to read scriptures as I do not believe.

Sorry to butt in there, but I really wonder about that kind of thing.
 
This Council was never received in the East, where Communion in both Kinds remains the norm.
 
So, at what point are you going to be any different than those who protest your church? I am not saying you are, but it makes me wonder because I can read the passages about his flesh and blood, and never see in them a demand to do things in any precise manner other than they MUST believe it REALLY is his flesh and REALLY is his blood. I don’t see in there that it must be bread, and must be wine.
Christ used bread and wine, and that is why the Church does. Christ’s use of bread and wine was foreshadowed in Israel’s history, and even before Israel existed (cf. Melchizedek in Gen 14:18-20). St. Paul made it clear that bread and wine were to be used in the Eucharist (cf. 1 Cor 11:23-25). The true Church has never considered it permissible to substitute something else, nor has she imagined she has the authority to.
Sorry to butt in there, but I really wonder about that kind of thing.
Yeah, this isn’t really the point of this thread at all.
 
This Council was never received in the East, where Communion in both Kinds remains the norm.
Are you referring to the Catholic East or the Orthodox East?

And I’m only concerned, in this thread, with the Latin Rite.
 
Hi japhy,
Are you referring to the Catholic East or the Orthodox East?
That would go for both actually, and with there being 22 Sui Iuris Particular Ritual churches in the Catholic Communion classified as ‘East’ I should think it is significant that all of them have traditionally distributed the Sacred Species in both kinds.
And I’m only concerned, in this thread, with the Latin Rite.
But the Eucharist is universal. :confused:

There is only one heavenly liturgy, beyond space and time. We who have a valid Eucharist…who know the Holy Ghost comes to transform the Holy Gifts into the Body and Blood of Our Lord…participate in this cosmic liturgy together with all the angels and saints.

Jesus Christ said DO THIS, and we do it. It isn’t possible to look at any one church in isolation, it’s just too big a deal. It’s bigger than all of us.

I hope this is not what I have read here: If one church out of all those Traditions actually condemned the reception by the laity in both kinds I would be very shocked and disappointed.
 
But the Eucharist is universal.
And discipline is not. Christ didn’t say “mix my Body and Blood in a Chalice and serve it with a spoon” and he didn’t say “kneel to receive on your tongue”.
I hope this is not what I have read here: If one church out of all those Traditions actually condemned the reception by the laity in both kinds I would be very shocked and disappointed.
The history behind it led the leaders of the Roman Church to make the decision they did, and as early as Trent (not even 150 years later) it was reconsidered (although not acted upon until Vatican II).

If it makes any difference, there was an earlier discipline requiring reception under both kinds, for the purpose of identifying (gnostic, I think) heretics who refused to receive the Precious Blood because they thought alcohol was evil.
 
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