History of Confession

[boomerang]

Any man is liable to forget some details of twenty centuries of Church history…or perhaps you misunderstood him

No, I heard him correctly. I was surprised to hear this. I remember thinking, “I only have to confess these three things? I’m home free!” Apostasy was the only thing I would be guilty of. Which is very bad, of course. But I’ve come home.

 

[boomerang]

In the ancient Church you were excommunicated for the three biggies. Eventually they gave you one chance to reconcile. Then it developed into forgiveness available for all sins multiple times.

That’s interesting. Can you cite any references? If they only gave you one chance, the church would get pretty small, quickly. Our Lady of Fatima said more people go to hell for sins of the flesh than anything else. I’m afraid our world is in bad shape. It seems most people are regularly committing at least one of the big three mortal sins.

 

[Joannm]

That’s interesting. Can you cite any references? If they only gave you one chance, the church would get pretty small, quickly. Our Lady of Fatima said more people go to hell for sins of the flesh than anything else. I’m afraid our world is in bad shape. It seems most people are regularly committing at least one of the big three mortal sins.

I’d have to do some searching. The reference I have is from a very big book on the Sacrament that we used in a graduate course. It’s up in my attic somewhere. It described in detail the Order of Penitents which was the way that a person who had committed one of these biggies was allowed back into full communion with the church on Holy Thursday. It was like an RCIA process for sinner and could take years. Many people did not go through it since the restrictions on the person, even after reconciled were harsh. Many waiting until they were almost dead to reconcile.

 

[Bookcat]

No, I heard him correctly. I was surprised to hear this. I remember thinking, “I only have to confess these three things? I’m home free!” Apostasy was the only thing I would be guilty of. Which is very bad, of course. But I’ve come home.

You might be doing penance for such publicly for years…

That’s interesting. Can you cite any references? If they only gave you one chance, the church would get pretty small, quickly. (

No actually the Church grew and grew during this period.

But this was not everywhere – there were differing local disciplines:

Yes I can see idolatry taken under apostasy.

One will find at times differing lists – some include idolatry and others might not as you say. But idolatry was one of the particularly grave sins for which there was a very rigorous discipline which included public penance. And there could be others that where noted. But it is not like those were the only mortal sins. Those were particularly bad mortal sins for which a very rigorous penance had to be undertaken before they were reconciled with the Church. Indeed in some places the discipline was so serious regarding them (murder, adultery, idolatry, and apostasy) that one could be reconciled only once in ones life. I would not say that those where the only ones for which the Sacrament was received --but they were the particularly grave sins among other grave sins for which very serious penance was undertaken.

See: catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=35905

 

[Bookcat]

Such was the case in the region and time of Origen (born 185)

An example of the only once is that Origen noted in one of his homilies that for the graver crimes (such as those mentioned above) there was only one opportunity for penance…

Which one would think – given the rigor involved in the penance – one would not likely fall again into apostasy (or idolatry), or adultery or murder too soon!!

 

[tafan]

…Is When did confession become what it is today? …

Lots of good info so far, but I did not see this addressed. It was the Irish Monks in the middle ages who developed the confession rite as we know it today, ie frequent, private confession to a priest under a seal of secrecy. This spread throughout Europe and became the norm by around the 13th century (IIRC).

 

[Bookcat]

Lots of good info so far, but I did not see this addressed. It was the Irish Monks in the middle ages who developed the confession rite as we know it today, ie frequent, private confession to a priest under a seal of secrecy. This spread throughout Europe and became the norm by around the 13th century (IIRC).

Certainly the way the Sacrament of Penance has been lived and practiced has changed over the centuries.

For example the practice of private and frequent confession as we know it now developed later -and was spread through monasticism in the 600’s AD.

And yes indeed Irish Monks had a big role in such.

 

[babochka]

Lots of good info so far, but I did not see this addressed. It was the Irish Monks in the middle ages who developed the confession rite as we know it today, ie frequent,** private confession to a priest under a seal of secrecy. This spread throughout Europe and became the norm by around the 13th century **(IIRC).

I’ve heard this before, but how does that explain that private confession to a priest is the practice in all apostolic Churches, with the exception of the Armenian Apostolic Church. It is practiced by the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox alike. The Oriental Orthodox in particular would not have been influenced by Irish monks or anything else in the west, as they split off in 451 AD. Even the Armenians practiced private confession at one time, but no longer do so (and have not for centuries) due to unique historical circumstances.

 

[Bookcat]

I’ve heard this before, but how does that explain that private confession to a priest is the practice in all apostolic Churches, with the exception

The fact the frequent and private confession was spread via monasticism in the west in the 600’s --does not exclude any private confessions prior to that time…

Also as I recall – the Celtic (Irish) Monks were influenced in general by Eastern Monasticism…

 

[Gorgias]

No, I heard him correctly. I was surprised to hear this. I remember thinking, “I only have to confess these three things? I’m home free!” Apostasy was the only thing I would be guilty of. Which is very bad, of course. But I’ve come home.

It’s not that your priest is wrong. It’s that he over-simplified his answer a bit too much. Yes, in the first few centuries of the Church, a practice of penance developed. Yes, it was rigorous and public and long-lasting. Yes, the public form of penance only covered the three biggies; prayer and the Eucharist were seen as remedies for less serious sin. Yes, you could only go through it one time, it seems.

Oh… and yes, people avoided it like the plague.

Over time, the practice of individual confession developed. In fact, over time, the notion of ‘penitentials’ came about: books for confessors to use (“you murdered your neighbor? Seven years in exile!”) to match sins to penances. eventually, it gave way to the form of the sacrament that we know and love, in which you confess in private, get an (easy, usually) penance, and walk away forgiven… and we still avoid it like the plague. :sad_yes:

 

[Bookcat]

In the early Church (as we do today) – “daily sins” (venial sins) could be forgiven by prayers during the liturgy and are forgiven by the Eucharist. Though other ways too where practiced – penance, alms, prayer etc…

The early Church admitted to Holy Communion those who had fallen into sins that lead to death after they had done the penance and been reconciled to the Church.

 

[Bookcat]

Regarding public penance: catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=35905

 

[Bookcat]

Origen (200’s) noted that there was always an open way for recovery from mortal sin (culpa mortalis) that was not a mortal crime (crimen mortale) (see above: apostasy (idolatry), murder and adultery were usually listed as such). That penance was not denied for such sins of that kind. But that for the graver crimes (the mortal crimes) only once could there be penance.

(as noted above in some places the discipline was so serious regarding them (murder, adultery, idolatry, and apostasy) that one could be reconciled only once in ones life.)