History of Islam. *QUESTION*

[Benjamin8o8]

Hello everybody, I am new here by the way. However as my first thread I did wanted to post a question I have for our Islamic brothers and sisters.

How come Islam can only be traced back to Mohamad but yet you claim that Moses, Abraham, and even Jesus Christ was a Muslim.

Now I know you might answer “well all of them submitted themselves to God, thus making them Muslim” but isnt submitting oneself to God Almighty something that all three world religions have in common? I mean, Christians and Jews need to submit themselves to God as well, so why assume that Jesus Christ was a Muslim? It just dose not maky any sense to me.

If you claim that religion of Islam (the one that Mohammad preached) got corrupted during time, could you at least tell me where, how, and when?

Thank you.

Your brother in Allah
Benjamin K.

love and peace.

 

[meedo]

Hello and peace be to you brother Benjamin ,

**First **

The first person to name Muslims by this name was **Abraham and his son ishmael **.

002.127

PICKTHAL: And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR: And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing:

002.128

PICKTHAL: Our Lord! And make us submissive unto Thee and of our seed a nation submissive unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and relent toward us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Relenting, the Merciful.
SHAKIR: Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

002.129

PICKTHAL: Our Lord! And raise up in their midst a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Thy revelations, and shall instruct them in the Scripture and in wisdom and shall make them grow. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Our Lord! and raise up in them a Messenger from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.

002.130

PICKTHAL: And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself? Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.
SHAKIR: And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.

Thus, the nation that emerged to restore the religion of ishmael and abraham in arabia was named by God ( as those two good patriarchs demanded while building the Holy house of God in Mecca) The Muslims ( the ones who submit)

022.078

PICKTHAL: And strive for Allah with the endeavour which is His right. He hath chosen you and hath not laid upon you in religion any hardship; the faith of your father Abraham (is yours). He hath named you Muslims of old time and in this (Scripture), that the messenger may be a witness against you, and that ye may be witnesses against mankind. So establish worship, pay the poor-due, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protecting friend. A blessed Patron and a blessed Helper!

SHAKIR: And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him; He has chosen you and has not laid upon you an hardship in religion;** the faith of your father Ibrahim; He named you Muslims before and in this,** that the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you, and you may be bearers of witness to the people; therefore keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and hold fast by Allah; He is your Guardian; how excellent the Guardian and how excellent the Helper!

Second

Since Muslims follow the faith of abraham ( only with thelegislation of the Prophet Muhammed , just like the isralites were following the religion of Abraham with the legislation of Moses) Muslims consider all believers ( and not just prophets ) to be Muslims. Simply because all believers nomatter what was their legislation at the time they lived in **submitted **to the will of God .

In this sense , islam here is not the whole legislation but he belief ( creed without the specific elabiorate laws and rituals of the time of the Prophet Muhammed detailed in the Quran)

In that sense, every creature ( no only humans ) who believe and obey the god of Abraham are considerd Muslims. It is more used as an adjective here than a specific noun. Submitters .

Third

Standing in the middle between the first point and the second point , Muslims like to emphasize the ‘‘muslimness’’ of the prophets to clear them of the entagelment of confusionbetween races and also dogmas that are not considered correct .

Judaism was named after a tribe of Juda
Christianity named after Christ

Muslims were not named after Muhammed . Specifically because islam came to clear prophets and humanity of the entagelments of persons and tribes into the broader umbrella of belief of God .

if Muhammed lived at the time of moses he would be a follower of moses , if Moses lived at the time of Muhammed he would be the follower of Muhammed . Muhammed isnt a jew nor Moses is an arab . They are both submitters. Muslims.

Abraham is so often said to have been a jew. and the mixup continues . He have been a worshipper of the lord on the straight path and a submitter ( muslim). The laws of moses and Muhammed came after him . he wasn’t a jew nor he was an arab.

Basicly in Islam , what is important is what is important from the eyes of God . and from the eyes of God the best of us is the one who performs his commands like hey were given . if a believer in the law of moses at the time of moses was a better believer than anorther in the time of muhammed following the legislation of the Quran then he is a better believer ( muslim) even though he doesnt follow the Quranic legislation ( he is niether demanded to nor capable of that and he is judged by god for what he was ordered at his time )

I hope i clarified a bit

best regards,

Meedo

 

[meedo]

Hello everybody, I am new here by the way. However as my first thread I did wanted to post a question I have for our Islamic brothers and sisters.

How come Islam can only be traced back to Mohamad but yet you claim that Moses, Abraham, and even Jesus Christ was a Muslim.

Now I know you might answer “well all of them submitted themselves to God, thus making them Muslim” but isnt submitting oneself to God Almighty something that all three world religions have in common? I mean, Christians and Jews need to submit themselves to God as well, so why assume that Jesus Christ was a Muslim? It just dose not maky any sense to me.

If you claim that religion of Islam (the one that Mohammad preached) got corrupted during time, could you at least tell me where, how, and when?

Thank you.

Your brother in Allah
Benjamin K.

love and peace.

btw

Ben -yameen means ‘‘the son of the right’’ in arabic , and i guess the same in hebrew.

bes regards

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Judaism was named after a tribe of Juda
Christianity named after Christ

Muslims were not named after Muhammed . Specifically because islam came to clear prophets and humanity of the entagelments of persons and tribes into the broader umbrella of belief of God .
Meedo

I was wondering, how come the term “Muslim” and “Islam” has not been used before Muhammed. Or has it?

In that sense, every creature ( no only humans ) who believe and obey the god of Abraham are considerd Muslims. It is more used as an adjective here than a specific noun. Submitters
Meedo

That is exactky what I was saying to some Muslims I came in contact as well. So I assume I have the right to call myself a Muslim Catholic correct?

Ben -yameen means ‘‘the son of the right’’ in arabic , and i guess the same in hebrew.

lol, thank you for clarifing that up for me, I do not think I ever knew what my name really meant. I know one time a personal friend of mine (who was Muslim) thought I was a Muslim because of my name. But, hey it is good to know my name has some type of meaning.

God Bless, and thank you for replying.

 

[hamba2han]

…I was wondering, how come the term “Muslim” and “Islam” has not been used before Muhammed. Or has it?..

Evidence from the English translation of Luke 6:40 that shows the word ‘Muslim’ being used by Prophet Jesus (pbuh):

The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master … Luke 6:40 (KJV)

The perfection here means a spiritual one. What the verse is saying is that knowledge is not what matters. The teacher or master is higher in knowledge than his student. But the student can be as high as his teacher, or even higher, by being a true ‘MUSHLAM’ or Muslim, a spiritually perfect and well-disciplined person.

"Ein talmeed na’leh 'al rabbo; shekken kal adam she’MUSHLAM yihyeh k’rabbo."

Taken from the Aramaic bible society. See also the PDF file at this link.

The most accurate and honest translation for the Aramaic ‘Mushlam’ is none other than the Arabic ‘Muslim’ i.e. a follower of Islam.

To read more, kindly go here.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

I see, so The Jews, Christiains, and followers of Mohammad are ALL Muslim, right?

 

[hamba2han]

I see, so The Jews, Christiains, and followers of Mohammad are ALL Muslim, right?

‘Islam’ means to submit to the will of the Creator.

A follower of Islam in Arabic is mu-Islam → Muslim.

Prophets Jesus and Moses (peace be upon them) both submitted to the will of their Lord and therefore they followed Islam.

Likewise, their followers who believed and followed their true teachings were also Muslims.

However, anyone who believes that Jesus (pbuh) was divine is certainly NOT a Muslim because this is not what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) taught.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Likewise, their followers who believed and followed their true teachings were also Muslims.

However, anyone who believes that Jesus (pbuh) was divine is certainly NOT a Muslim because this is not what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) taught.

That is something that Mohammad taught, so to me it seems as if Muslims sumbit themselves to Mohammad and not Allah.

Consider this: Mohammad came 600 hundred years AFTER Jesus, so who is Mohammad to say that Jesus is divine or not.
Also, trace back to my original question:

If you claim that religion of Islam (the one that Mohammad preached) got corrupted during time, could you at least tell me where, how, and when?"

 

[hamba2han]

That is something that Mohammad taught, so to me it seems as if Muslims sumbit themselves to Mohammad and not Allah.

Consider this: Mohammad came 600 hundred years AFTER Jesus, so who is Mohammad to say that Jesus is divine or not.
Also, trace back to my original question:

If you claim that religion of Islam (the one that Mohammad preached) got corrupted during time, could you at least tell me where, how, and when?"

The onus is on Christians to prove that Prophet Jesus (pbuh) did indeed teach his followers that he was divine.

Muslims can see no proof whatsoever of this in the Bible.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Well, the Old Testament fortold of the Massiah. The New Testament is full of letters written by believers of Jesus Christ that claimed He was God.

Jesus also mentions His divinity in the Gospels.

Amen, Amen I say to you, before Abraham was I AM.

Me and the Father are One.

Jesus also forgave sins, and even said to pray in HIS name.

“Anything you ask the fahter in My name, He will give it to you”.

I am sure there is much more evidence in the Bible that Jesus claimes His divine nature.

 

[hamba2han]

The “divinity” of Jesus (pbuh) is surely the most significant belief in present-day Christianity.

And so then, why didn’t Jesus (pbuh) see the need to repeatedly say it out loud in very clear and unequivocal terms to his followers?

In comparison, would anyone in the world even question the name of the first man and woman to live according to the Bible?

Definitely NOT because this is just so very clearly stated in the Bible and therefore no one has any doubts whatsoever that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman, even those who choose to disbelieve what the Bible teaches will not even dare question that this is what it states.

Why then is the matter of the alleged divinity of Jesus (pbuh), which is surely no less significant than the story of Adam and Eve, be so ambiguous that it should even be subject to question by disbelievers of Christianity if this was indeed what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) taught?

 

[Prime]

no less significant

than the story of Adam and Eve, be so ambiguous that it should even be subject to question by disbelievers of Christianity if this was indeed what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) taught?

Your interpretations have already been dissected by our Early Fathers during the 2nd century who successfully sorted out all sorts of heresies like the Gnostics who rejected the divinity of Jesus Christ. One of these Gnostic sects was the Ebionites.
The doctrines of this sect are said by Irenaeus to be like those of Cerinthus and Carpocrates. They denied the Divinity and the virginal birth of Christ; they clung to the observance of the Jewish Law; they regarded St. Paul as an apostate, and used only a Gospel according to St. Matthew (Adv. Haer., I, xxvi, 2; III, xxi, 2; IV, xxxiii, 4; V, i, 3). Their doctrines are similarly described by Hippolytus (Philos., VIII, xxii, X, xviii) and Tertullian (De carne Chr., xiv, 18), but their observance of the Law seems no longer so prominent a feature of their system as in the account given by Irenaeus. Origen is the first (Against Celsus V.61) to mark a distinction between two classes of Ebionites, a distinction which Eusebius also gives (Church History III.27). Some Ebionites accept, but others reject, the virginal birth of Christ, though all reject His pre-existence and His Divinity. Those who accepted the virginal birth seem to have had more exalted views concerning Christ and, besides observing the Sabbath, to have kept the Sunday as a memorial of His Resurrection. The milder sort of Ebionites were probably fewer and less important than their stricter brethren, because the denial of the virgin birth was commonly attributed to all. (Origen, Hom. in Luc., xvii) St. Epiphanius calls the more heretical section Ebionites, and the more Catholic-minded, Nazarenes. But we do not know whence St. Epiphanius obtained his information or or how far it is reliable. It is very hazardous, therefore, to maintain, as is sometimes done, that the distinction betweenNazarenes and Ebionites goes back to the earliest days of Christianity.

Of the history of this sect hardly anything is known. They exerted only the slightest influence in the East and none at all in the West, where they were known as Symmachiani. In St. Epiphanius’s time small communities seem still to have existed in some hamlets of Syria and Palestine, but they were lost in obscurity. Further east, in Babylonia and Persia, their influence is perhaps traceable amongst the Mandeans, and it is suggested by Uhlhorn and others that they may be brought into connection with the origin of Islam.

This heresy has been dismissed 18 centuries ago, long before they called themsalves Muslims.

 

[hamba2han]

Your interpretations have already been dissected by our Early Fathers during the 2nd century who successfully sorted out all sorts of heresies like the Gnostics who rejected the divinity of Jesus Christ…

As I have mentioned, the alleged divinity of Jesus (pbuh) is no less significant than the story of Adam and Eve.

Was there any need at all by the Church to “dissect” any “interpretation” of the story of Adam and Eve being the first man and woman who ever lived?

Since the answer is so obviously ‘No’, why then was there a need for the “early fathers” of the Church to “sort out” varying “heresies” concerning the alleged divinity of Jesus (pbuh)?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

I see, so The Jews, Christiains, and followers of Mohammad are ALL Muslim, right?

Jews rejected several Prophets , also killed them . They tried to kill Jesus (p) , failed but boasted over it . Christians worship human being & angel as dieties . So , no , they can’t be Muslims.

 

[Prime]

Was there any need at all by the Church to “dissect” any “interpretation” of the story of Adam and Eve being the first man and woman who ever lived?

As I have mentioned, the alleged divinity of Jesus (pbuh) is no less significant than the story of Adam and Eve.

Why then, was there a need for the “early fathers” of the Church to “dissect” varying “interpretations” of his divinity?

Did your Gnostic sect Ebionite challenge the story of Adam and Eve?

Peace!

 

[Christ_Is_Life]

The “divinity” of Jesus (pbuh) is surely the most significant belief in present-day Christianity.

And so then, why didn’t Jesus (pbuh) see the need to repeatedly say it out loud in very clear and unequivocal terms to his followers?

In comparison, would anyone in the world even question the name of the first man and woman to live according to the Bible?

Definitely NOT because this is just so very clearly stated in the Bible and therefore no one has any doubts whatsoever that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman, even those who choose to disbelieve what the Bible teaches will not even dare question that this is what it states.

Why then is the matter of the alleged divinity of Jesus (pbuh), which is surely no less significant than the story of Adam and Eve, be so ambiguous that it should even be subject to question by disbelievers of Christianity if this was indeed what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) taught?

He didn’t want to broadcast it because through his infinite wisdom knew it would jeapordise his mission. If you start shouting from the rooftops that you are God all of his enemies would have called for his death, Jesus was always too clever to be caught out, not because he was crafty but because his time had not come yet and there was important things to do.

Read Luke 9:18-21

 

[hamba2han]

He didn’t want to broadcast it because through his infinite wisdom knew it would jeapordise his mission. If you start shouting from the rooftops that you are God all of his enemies would have called for his death, Jesus was always too clever to be caught out, not because he was crafty but because his time had not come yet and there was important things to do.

Read Luke 9:18-21

Do Christians even realise the implications of what they are saying here?

They are saying that Jesus (pbuh) concealed the “truth” that he was divine because he was fearful for his life.

If indeed he was God, then why should he fear his enemies?

Which is worse here folks → Jesus not being truthful by deliberately concealing his “divinity”… or God Himself fearing for His own safety??.. Astaughfirullah.

 

[Christ_Is_Life]

Do Christians even realise the implications of what they are saying here?

They are saying that Jesus (pbuh) concealed the “truth” that he was divine because he was fearful for his life.

If indeed he was God, then why should he fear his enemies?

Which is worse here folks → Jesus not being truthful by deliberately concealing his “divinity”… or God Himself fearing for His own safety??.. Astaughfirullah.

You are the one who is suggesting that Jesus (being God) is fearful for his life. I would only agree with that statement if it’s put in the right context. I think it’s obvious that he knew people have free will and if he had said straight out that he was God they would have had reason to kill him. He obviously had many important things left to forfill in his mission. It wasn’t time for him to die, yet he knew he was eventually going to. That doesn’t sound like fear to me.

This is where the Catholic model of idolitry is demonstrated by muslims because they choose to create God in their own image (make him fit the image of what they think he should be) by suggesting if Jesus was God they could throw knives in his chest only for them to bounce out or for Jesus just to just lose it and slaughter the unbelievers in righteous anger. If that would have happened what would that have done for Christianity? What examples would it have set for it’s followers, would it have made violence acceptable? Would it have made the world a better place today.

Just look at Islam for your answer. By their fruits ye shall know them -Mathew 7:16

Did you read Luke 9:18-21?

 

[meedo]

I was wondering, how come the term “Muslim” and “Islam” has not been used before Muhammed. Or has it?

It has been used by Abraham and Ishmael and probably by others as well

That is exactky what I was saying to some Muslims I came in contact as well. So I assume I have the right to call myself a Muslim Catholic correct?

You are submitter to your Lord Jesus. But in the eyes of Muslims you are submitting to a diety that is elevated to a devine position. This constitutes worshipping another diety besides teh God of Abraham ( Jesus) , thus you are a submitter( muslim ) ‘’ to Jesus ‘’ but not to God . So you can use Muslim as an adjective, but it is not what Abraham was refering to or what God considers a true submitter to him .

The second issue is that a submitter follows Gods rules ( not only knows him and worships him alone without other dieties ) Lets say that today there is someone who understands and knows God but rejects that he should ever pray or rejects following the prophets that God sent , then this person is not a submitter.

lol, thank you for clarifing that up for me, I do not think I ever knew what my name really meant. I know one time a personal friend of mine (who was Muslim) thought I was a Muslim because of my name. But, hey it is good to know my name has some type of meaning.

God Bless, and thank you for replying.

This is according to Islamic understanding .

best regards,
meedo

 

[M0nkey]

This is proof that we don’t all worship the same god; some claim there are many paths to God, and one can find it’s own way, but sorry, that simply isn’t true.