History of Sacramental wine

[Johnpeter073]

When was the first time Church prescribed wine as the only valid species for consecration apart from the bread?
Eastern Catholic Churches, before coming into communion with the Rome, has (if at all) used substances other than wine for consecration, were those celebration valid then if they had held valid holy orders?

 

[JRS_88]

Eastern Catholic Churches, before coming into communion with the Rome, has (if at all) used substances other than wine for consecration

What are your sources for this? I’m confused by the wording “has (if at all)”. Please clarify.

 

[po18guy]

When was the first time Church prescribed wine as the only valid species for consecration apart from the bread?
Eastern Catholic Churches, before coming into communion with the Rome, has (if at all) used substances other than wine for consecration, were those celebration valid then if they had held valid holy orders?

What substances, and who says so? Since “Catholic” means universal, how could there have been denominations apart from the universal Church? In ancient Judea, there was no electricity, natural ice or liquids to drink other than water or wine. What on earth would have/could have been used? Are you, or have you been speaking with Baptists?

 

[Xystus]

What substances, and who says so? Since “Catholic” means universal, how could there have been denominations apart from the universal Church? In ancient Judea, there was no electricity, natural ice or liquids to drink other than water or wine. What on earth would have/could have been used? Are you, or have you been speaking with Baptists?

I’m sure there were other beverages. They had all the ingredients to make beer and i would be surprised if it was not available. No i am not claiming beer was ever used in place of wine for the Eucharist. I’m just saying it was probably available for consumption.

 

[Ignatius]

Eastern Catholic Churches, before coming into communion with the Rome, has (if at all) used substances other than wine for consecration, were those celebration valid then if they had held valid holy orders?

The pre-denominational, undivided Church was united for the first 1000 years, so the contention that what would later become Eastern Churches had different matter for the Holy Mysteries of The Eucharist, doesn’t make any sense.

 

[po18guy]

I’m sure there were other beverages. They had all the ingredients to make beer and i would be surprised if it was not available. No i am not claiming beer was ever used in place of wine for the Eucharist. I’m just saying it was probably available for consumption.

Zero evidence. That was not a beer-drinking culture. Hops? Malt? Barley? NASCAR?

No.

Wine and wine presses?

Plenty.

Look up John Smythe. In 1609, he founded the Baptist denomination. Dunno if they were first, but they are the primary promoters of the non-biblical use of juice, Kool-Aid, whatever. They also reject the Sacraments.

Where did this assertion come from?

 

[Xystus]

Zero evidence. That was not a beer-drinking culture. Hops? Malt? Barley? NASCAR?

No.

Wine and wine presses?

Plenty.

Look up John Smythe. In 1609, he founded the Baptist denomination. Dunno if they were first, but they are the primary promoters of the non-biblical use of juice, Kool-Aid, whatever. They also reject the Sacraments.

Where did this assertion come from?

Ezekiel 4:9 Then take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them into a single pot and make them into bread. Eat it for as many days as you lie upon your side, three hundred and ninety days.

They absolutely had Barley. Barley, Water, Yeast is all you need for beer. Wheat, Millet, Spelt can all be made into alcoholic beverages. Malt is made from the barley. Hops were not added to beer until much later, somewhere around the 800’s i think. There is evidence of beer in ancient Iraq and ancient Egypt. Why would a civilization between them not have it.

NASCAR? your are just making yourself sound foolish.

Like i said before, I am not claiming sacramental use of beer at all. I am saying they very likely had it available for consumption. Im not even saying it was a common thing but saying water and wine were the only thing to drink i find to be not credible. John Smythe has nothing to do which what i am saying.