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theox
Guest
Can anyone give me a good source on Latin and Eastern rite Mass during the 16th Century?
- Status
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Deacon_Ed
Guest
As stated, your question does not permit an answer. There is no “Eastern Rite Mass.” There are FIVE Eastern Rites and the term “Mass” was not applied to any of their liturgies during the period you mention. It is currently applied to the Maronite Liturgy and a couple of other Eastern liturgies. In general, Latin was not used in the Eastern tradition unless it was also the language of the people (i.e., the vernacular).
That being said, the Romanian Divine Liturgy (part of the Byzantine Rite) did use Romanian which is derived from Latin.
Perhaps you could be a little more specific about what it is you are looking for.
Deacon Ed
That being said, the Romanian Divine Liturgy (part of the Byzantine Rite) did use Romanian which is derived from Latin.
Perhaps you could be a little more specific about what it is you are looking for.
Deacon Ed
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theox
Guest
How about a good reference on 15th century (sry mistake in OP) Latin and Byzantine Rite Mass?
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Aramis
Guest
Actually, the Chaldeans and Maronites did use the term Missae when speaking/writing in Latin or latin derived languages.
Some latin documents of the period refer to the various eastern Divine Liturgies as Missae. It’s no longer common practice except for the Chaldeans and Maronites. The various Byzatines, the Chaldeans, and Armenians generally use the term Divine Liturgy.
The council of Trent eliminated a bunch of local variations on the order of mass and the Eucharistic Prayers in the Western Church. The variations can be seen in the older liturgies which were exempted from the pruning: The Dominican, Carmelite, Mozarabic, Ambrosian, Carthusian.
Wikipedia has a decent article on the pre-trent Roman liturgies (a brief but well written overview). It also has a good article on the Sarum Use (aka Sarum rite), which was abolished by the English themselves (due to the leaving the Cathlic Church), and formally disallowed by Quo Primum. The Diocese of Durham had a similar local liturgy, the Durham Rite or Durham Use. check out the links at the bottom of the respective pages for a good spectrum of sources.
Lots of local variances, most minor, dominate the scene in the 14th through 16th centuries. France had a mixture of the Gallican and Roman uses; the Gallican is almost different enough to properly be a separate rite; the Mozarabic and Ambrosian are considered separate rites, even though all three were (and the Mozarabic and Ambrosian are) part of the Roman Church.
Some latin documents of the period refer to the various eastern Divine Liturgies as Missae. It’s no longer common practice except for the Chaldeans and Maronites. The various Byzatines, the Chaldeans, and Armenians generally use the term Divine Liturgy.
The council of Trent eliminated a bunch of local variations on the order of mass and the Eucharistic Prayers in the Western Church. The variations can be seen in the older liturgies which were exempted from the pruning: The Dominican, Carmelite, Mozarabic, Ambrosian, Carthusian.
Wikipedia has a decent article on the pre-trent Roman liturgies (a brief but well written overview). It also has a good article on the Sarum Use (aka Sarum rite), which was abolished by the English themselves (due to the leaving the Cathlic Church), and formally disallowed by Quo Primum. The Diocese of Durham had a similar local liturgy, the Durham Rite or Durham Use. check out the links at the bottom of the respective pages for a good spectrum of sources.
Lots of local variances, most minor, dominate the scene in the 14th through 16th centuries. France had a mixture of the Gallican and Roman uses; the Gallican is almost different enough to properly be a separate rite; the Mozarabic and Ambrosian are considered separate rites, even though all three were (and the Mozarabic and Ambrosian are) part of the Roman Church.
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theox
Guest
Thank you that was VERY helpful. One more thing, what language would a Byzantine rite be performed in at Constantinople during this period? Latin or Greek?
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Deacon_Ed
Guest
Greek. In fact, Greek was the common language of the Church until the 3rd century when Latin began being used. By the 5th century Latin was the liturgical language of Rome and from there it spread throughout the West.
Deacon Ed
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Aramis
Guest
Was then and still is Greek, tho’ now Turkish and/or Arabic may also be used.
Almost all the Eastern Churches EXCEPT the Slavic Byzantines and the greeks themselves used the vernacular. The Greeks try to stick to Koine, and the Slavics all use Old Church Slavonic or Russian Church Slavonic, or in places without slavic language, the vernacular. Been that way for centuries. Many maintained some parts in a liturgical language, while other parts are in the vernacular (EG: Chaldeans and Maronites using Aramaic in the consecration, and aramaic elsewhere.)
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bpbasilphx
Guest
How about a good reference on 15th century (sry mistake in OP) Latin and Byzantine Rite Mass?
**You didn’t get it, did you?
The Byzantine churches, especially, do NOT use the term “mass.”**
**You didn’t get it, did you?
The Byzantine churches, especially, do NOT use the term “mass.”**
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theox
Guest
[Edited] Thanks to all who posted information I appreciate it.
One more Q, the small ceremony held in the Hagia Sophia to celebrate the Union of Florence in 1452, would this have been held in Latin using the Latin Rite or in Greek using the Byzantine Rite?
Probably can’t know for sure but am interested in best guesses
One more Q, the small ceremony held in the Hagia Sophia to celebrate the Union of Florence in 1452, would this have been held in Latin using the Latin Rite or in Greek using the Byzantine Rite?
Probably can’t know for sure but am interested in best guesses
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theox
Guest
Does anyone think it is possible that this celebration was held in the Roman Rite? Does this seem appropriate for the event?
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theox
Guest
no guesses?
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AJV
Guest
No it was held according to the liturgy of the Great Church as it existed then.
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theox
Guest
Do you have a source or is this your best guess? Not trying to be difficult, I’m writing a paper and can’t seem to find the answer.
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AJV
Guest
No problem
Yes, I do have a source - it was an article I had read some time back in a journal. I will try and find it and post it. There are some peculiarities of the Byzantine rite than didn’t belong in the Roman during which disturbances were recorded e.g. the reading fo the diptychs.- Status