Hitler and Catholicism

[DaveBj]

What a blog did you notice the misidentification of Pope Benedict in the third picture?

No, I didn’t go any farther than finding the pic of Hitler with the Nuncio, whom many mis-identify as Pius XII.

Hitler wasn’t a Catholic (except by baptism), he was a nut. Sometimes he would say Christian-inspired things, and at other times support made-up German paganism. There was little consistency and it is still very unclear what he actually believed in, if anything.

He was also confirmed, but the testimony of his confirmation sponsor (quoted in one of the biographies that I have) indicated that for the young Adolf, confirmation was a meaningless ceremony to be endured.

 

[Mike_SoCal]

Much evil has been done by people who claim to be Christians.

True believers would not persecute others.

There is always a spirit of antichrist at work in the world.

1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.

 

[robwar]

More undocumented claims. Do you have sources? I’m not saying Hitler was in any way, a nice guy, but I am shocked by the “I heard or think, etc.” comments. Bad enough some people (not here) invent or imagine things.

Peace,
Ed

Hilter’s involvement with the occult is very well documented. He had an obsession with horoscope charts and he had on staff an astrologer. Likewise the swaztika is an occultic symbol. While he may have been baptized, he obviously never practiced the Catholic faith as a young man and adult. His very immoral life, messianic set up of Germany, all the death and killing of so call “undesirables” which included Catholics ought to tell anyone that he was an evil sick man. He also killed himself. I am not sure what evidence you need but again his heavy involvement with the occult is very well known. Likewise, to even imply by some other poster that he got his control ideas and methods from the Catholic Church is even more insulting and sick. There is nothing Christian about Hilter and Germany at that time had many more Lutherans and Reformed in it than Catholics.

 

[robwar]

More undocumented claims. Do you have sources? I’m not saying Hitler was in any way, a nice guy, but I am shocked by the “I heard or think, etc.” comments. Bad enough some people (not here) invent or imagine things.

Peace,
Ed

likewise I did not say “I heard or think”. I spoke from the books I’ve read about him as well and the numerous documentaries that have been done on Hilter.

 

[edwest2]

Much evil has been done by people who claim to be Christians.

True believers would not persecute others.

There is always a spirit of antichrist at work in the world.

1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. From this we know that it is the last hour.

And no evil is ever committed by anti-theists? I lived through the Cold War when “Godless Communism” was going to send nuclear missiles against us any day. And you know what? we didn’t lose a second of sleep about it.

Stop with the last hour stuff. Jesus clearly told us what to look for.

Joseph Stalin. Look him up. He caused the deaths of millions.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

likewise I did not say “I heard or think”. I spoke from the books I’ve read about him as well and the numerous documentaries that have been done on Hilter.

Which books? As I am a World War II history specialist, others reading this had better hear the truth, not lies. I know people who were on the ground during World War II. My parents spent the war in Nazi Germany as forced laborers. Our closest family friend was in a Concentration Camp and he and his Father were Catholics. Their crime? Hiding Jews.

I have studied Hitler carefully and read Mein Kampf, his book. I know who he was and where he came from and how he came to power. He didn’t just stand up one day and declare himself Chancellor.

Peace,
Ed

 

[atheistgirl]

If Hitler was indeed so Catholic, I wonder why He bothered killing all those Catholics then?

Logical =/=, disconnect.

Right.

Because if all those Catholics today are indeed, you know, so Catholic, I wonder why they contracept, abort, divorce, commit adultery, use drugs, murder and rape in 2013.

Is that a logical disconnect?

Or human nature, regardless of their particular faith or belief?

Fallen human nature as people of faith see it?

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

HItler was baptized a Catholic, so he was Catholic.

Everybody here says that once you are a Catholic, you always are.

Until it’s kinda awkward.

Isn’t there a name for this - the No True Scotsman fallacy?

And before I get jumped on by others , I’m not equating Catholicism with Hitler. The fact Hitler was a Catholic doesn’t negatively influence Catholicism for me.

I can find 2000 years worth of bad people who were Catholics.

This wouldn’t undermine the truth of Catholicism for me, were I to believe in it, because I understand the difference between what the Church stands for, and the people who make up the Church.

There’s no logical disconnect as MMM claims between somebody being Catholic, and them being a bad person.

In fact, if there were, the disconnect would apply to every Catholic on earth, and no Catholic could claim to be Catholic if being Catholic meant you didn’t do bad things, because Catholics believe every person is fallen or sinful.

Sarah x

 

[NeedImprovement]

I thought this post quoted directly below contained an excellent analogy:

If Hitler was indeed so Catholic, I wonder why He bothered killing all those Catholics then?

Logical =/=, disconnect.

Logical =/=, disconnect , =

Just like a USB storage device when it becomes become logically disconnected: the device is still plugged in, but is invisible from the operating system - strikingly similar to the sinner who has turned his back on God’s grace.

And the question being asked is a most logical one , considering that sin separates us from God and that The Eucharist (God) separates us from sin .

Yet it would appear some have difficulty in comprehending that God’s grace can still be resisted because of free will - despite the indelible mark the Holy Spirit puts on each of our souls at Baptism.

I find it troubling that anyone - regardless of their (lack of) belief would think that it is human nature to contracept, it is human nature to abort, it is human nature to divorce, it is human nature to commit adultery,it is human nature to use drugs, it is human nature to murder and it is human nature to rape (BTW it is “Catholic nature” to include aborting with murder - we don’t do the* illogical disconnect* on that one ).

Sin is a departure from the will of God. That’s not rocket science. However one individual seems to be incapable of differentiating between being a Catholic and being a sinner.

it would appear they could afford to cut down on the Catholic diss a little - maybe get themselves a bible instead and try to get up to speed on what we really believe - instead of sorely misrepresenting our beliefs. Being a Catholic also means believing these words of our Blessed Lord :

Matt 7: 15-20 [from http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PVG.HTM#$2YC”] NAB

w/ footnote incl]

*** "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them**.

• footnote: [15-20] Christian disciples who claimed to speak in the name of God are called prophets (⇒ Matthew 7:15) in ⇒ Matthew 10:41; ⇒ Matthew 23:34. They were presumably an important group within the church of Matthew. As in the case of the Old Testament prophets, there were both true and false ones, and for Matthew the difference could be recognized by the quality of their deeds, the fruits (⇒ Matthew 7:16). The mention of fruits leads to the comparison with trees, some producing good fruit, others bad.

 

[edwest2]

This topic has strayed into the “let’s bash” category. No footnotes. No historical references.

Peace,
Ed

 

[robwar]

HItler was baptized a Catholic, so he was Catholic.

Everybody here says that once you are a Catholic, you always are…it is imprinted in you forever and there is no changing it.

.

From all accounts he may be on record as Catholic due to baptism and even confirmation which from one of the other poster quoted that he must have gone through the motions. But it is more than obvious that he was not a practicing Catholic and pretty much left the Catholic church as well as any Christian faith to live his murderous, immoral, sick life that ended in his own cowardly suicide. Whatever graces he got in baptism were obviously rejected later in life. Baptism is the beginning but one must accept that grace and follow through on it and choose to follow Christ every day. There is nothing Catholic or Christian in this man and looking at his fruit should tell you what he believed and followed and one doesn’t need to be a specialist in WW II to see it.

 

[OxygenMan]

Catholics can become non-Catholics through apostasy or total rejection of the faith, which is what Hitler did.

 

[robwar]

This topic has strayed into the “let’s bash” category. No footnotes. No historical references.

Peace,
Ed

Ok where is your historical record, references or foot notes that support a “Christian” Hitler?
There isn’t any and it doesn’t take much at all to look at someone and see millions of dead bodies from WW II to know this was a evil man who surrounded himself with evil people who took over a Christian nation to make it a murderous nation of thugs trying to take over the world and make it a 1000 year empire with so called superior Aryans in charge of everything?

 

[robwar]

Catholics can become non-Catholics through apostasy or total rejection of the faith, which is what Hitler did.

exactly and it is obvious too!

 

[Just_Lurking]

If Hitler was indeed so Catholic, I wonder why He bothered killing all those Catholics then?

Logical =/=, disconnect.

I think there is a confusion about what it means to be persecuted due to a characteristic. That is:

• People of the Jewish race were interred in the camps because they were of the Jewish race.
• Homosexuals were interred in the camps because they were homosexual.
• Atheists were interred in the camps because they were atheist.

However, people weren’t rounded up because they were Catholic. It’s just that if they were rounded up for some other reason, being Catholic wasn’t enough to keep them out of the camps. For example, people who were of the Jewish race were interred even if they were of the Catholic religion.

 

[october_baby]

I think there is a confusion about what it means to be persecuted due to a characteristic. That is:

• People of the Jewish race were interred in the camps because they were of the Jewish race.
• Homosexuals were interred in the camps because they were homosexual.
• Atheists were interred in the camps because they were atheist.

However, people weren’t rounded up because they were Catholic. It’s just that if they were rounded up for some other reason, being Catholic wasn’t enough to keep them out of the camps. For example, people who were of the Jewish race were interred even if they were of the Catholic religion.

I think your mistaken, plenty of priest and nuns were put into camps for practicing their faith.

 

[CarolNoel]

Lots of good information here. Specail thanks to edwest.

 

[atheistgirl]

I find it troubling that anyone - regardless of their (lack of) belief would think that it is human nature to contracept, it is human nature to abort, it is human nature to divorce, it is human nature to commit adultery,it is human nature to use drugs, it is human nature to murder and it is human nature to rape

If you’re referring to my post, which I believe you are, what other nature do we have, other than human nature?

Everything we do is done within the confines of our human nature.

We’re capable of great good, and terrible bad.

The specific cause or causes of an action can be very complex, but whatever we do, or don’t do, it’s our human nature that it all happens within.

Of course, you might think we have another nature, a spiritual nature driven by our souls desire for God, but I wouldn’t agree.

Based on the lack of evidence.

There’s no doubting our human nature though.

(BTW it is “Catholic nature” to include aborting with murder - we don’t do the* illogical disconnect* on that one ).

I happen to think aborting is murdering a child too.

Must be my human nature that tells me when I was pregnant, what I was expecting was a human, and to ever think of getting rid of the baby, regardless of what stage it’s at, would be getting rid of another human being.

Sarah x

 

[october_baby]

TO ED WEST: I got mid way through Mein Kampf, didn’t Hitler say he wanted to
eliminate the catholic faith, or was that in Hitler’s Table Talk?

 

[robwar]

The best teacher I had in High School was a wonderful Jewish women who had lost a number of family members in Germany to Hitler. She was an incredible lady with real acute spiritual insight. The main lesson I learned from her was that in her own direct experience as well as study that the people who resisted Hitler and stood up to him and did the right things were not the smartest, the richest, the most studied or learned but those who had a moral compass from religion and knew the difference between right and wrong and were willing to do the right things even if it cost them their lives which in many cases it did. You don’t need to be a so called “expert” on WW II to know Hitler was an evil man with evil plans and took a lot of people down the road to hell with him. I don’t need to read his book to understand Hitler.
In fact, Hitler should be a the poster boy for what someone turns out like WHEN they reject their baptism grace and faith. I would rather spend my time reading and studying those who did the right things under Hitler. I would rather study St. Max Kolbe, Carrie Ten Boom, the White Rose society (a Christian brother and sister who lost their lives spreading pamphlets decrying Hitler’s murder of the mentally handicapped and ill), Dedrick Bonhoffer, and a large host of so many others that did the right things, tried to save lives and did what they could to resist Hitler. Those are the people and things I read not some sick garbage from a evil man. We should study how a Christian society voted Hitler in and then willingly let him take them down the road by lies to death and destruction, take warning from that for our own. I would rather read about the Catholic monasteries that hide Jews, the Dutch Bishops that spoke out against Hitler when he took over the Netherlands, and even the Pope that hide Jews in the Vatican and did everything he could to save lives and resist evil from behind the scenes. These are the examples we need to study and learn from for our benefit, not some sicko ranting of a totally evil man that rejected his baptismal faith and grace.