Hitler and excommunication

[Mom_of_one]

Since Adolph Hitler was baptized a Catholic, I understand that made him a Catholic. Was he considered a lapsed Catholic by the Church? Was Adolph Hitler excommunicated? If so, when? If not, why not?

 

[WestonGrant]

Hitler was an apostate. Never heard that he was excommunicated. But it’s bogus to say he was Catholic. He hated the Catholic Church.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Hitler was de facto an excommunicate by egregious unconfessed sins LONG before he gained political power.

In 1931, the German Bishops excommunicated all Nazi Party (and Communist Party) members. This included Hitler.

Pope Pius XII (during the war) essentially let this stand and did not “re-do” under the the understanding that such a grandstanding move would provoke a Nazi response and cause raids against rectories and convents and the Vatican itself, causing THOUSANDS of Jews to be captured and sent to their deaths.

 

[DaveBj]

In my studies of my father’s war, I have read several biographies of Hitler. He was both baptized and confirmed a Catholic, but there is no evidence that he ever afterwards darkened the door of a Catholic church, except maybe to admire the architecture. Any excommunication directed at him personally would probably have been a source of mirth on his part.

DaveBj

 

[rpp]

In my studies of my father’s war, I have read several biographies of Hitler. He was both baptized and confirmed a Catholic, but there is no evidence that he ever afterwards darkened the door of a Catholic church, except maybe to admire the architecture. Any excommunication directed at him personally would probably have been a source of mirth on his part.

DaveBj

When I read John Toland’s book,Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography, I do not recall seeing anywhere that Hitler had been confirmed. I may be wrong, but I do not believe that Hitler had been confirmed. I do recall that he hated the Catholic school he went to and as soon as he could he convinced his uncle (his father having already died) to convince his mother to put him in a different school. On the other hand, I may have my recollections mixed up and what I have just posted is incorrect. I will need to grab that book and find out.

One thing John Toland in his book, as well as William Shirer’s book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reichmade clear is that Hitler, after coming to power, appears to have cleansed his childhood records. Few of them survived. Many speculate that he did this because he may have been illegitimate, or not “pure Arian” or perhaps he was ashamed to avoiding the draft before Bavaria finally got him in WWI or that he was a homeless starving artist/beggar sleeping on the streets of Vienna before WWI. Perhaps he just wanted to keep is formative years a mystery.

 

[whiteknite]

If Hitler wasnt Catholic then he sure had alot of History with them…:-
Read (Link removed as per Forum Rules)

 

[rpp]

If Hitler wasnt Catholic then he sure had alot of History with them…:-
Read (Link removed as per Forum Rules)

It is against forum rules to post links to blatantly anti-Catholic web sites.

None of the information here is correct, historically accurate or true. This has long since been repudiated. (Edited)

 

[DaveBj]

When I read John Toland’s book,Adolf Hitler: The Definitive Biography, I do not recall seeing anywhere that Hitler had been confirmed. I may be wrong, but I do not believe that Hitler had been confirmed. I do recall that he hated the Catholic school he went to and as soon as he could he convinced his uncle (his father having already died) to convince his mother to put him in a different school. On the other hand, I may have my recollections mixed up and what I have just posted is incorrect. I will need to grab that book and find out.

One thing John Toland in his book, as well as William Shirer’s book The Rise and Fall of the Third Reichmade clear is that Hitler, after coming to power, appears to have cleansed his childhood records. Few of them survived. Many speculate that he did this because he may have been illegitimate, or not “pure Arian” or perhaps he was ashamed to avoiding the draft before Bavaria finally got him in WWI or that he was a homeless starving artist/beggar sleeping on the streets of Vienna before WWI. Perhaps he just wanted to keep is formative years a mystery.

I have Toland’s 2-volume set, and it doesn’t have the story, but according to Robert Payne’s The Life and Death of Adolf Hitler, pp. 37-38, he was confirmed on May 22, 1904, at the cathedral at Linz, Austria, sponsored by Emmanuel Lugert, a friend of his late father. I’m sure I’ve seen the same thing in another Hitler bio; I just can’t lay my hands on it at the moment.

Hitler may have been able to cleanse some of his childhood records, but one thing he could not erase is the memories of others who were there.

DaveBj

 

[VociMike]

In 1931, the German Bishops excommunicated all Nazi Party (and Communist Party) members. This included Hitler.

I never heard of this before. Can you cite a reference? It would certainly be useful knowledge to have at hand!

 

[Mom_of_one]

Thanks, everyone.

I’m not sure I understand about excommunication. One actually has to be a member of the RCC to be excommunicated, but when is a Catholic no longer a Catholic and therefore wouldn’t be excommunicated?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

My reading indicates Hitler turned to the Catholic Church when he was down and out. He was correctly tutored by a priest. Later Hitler realized he might gain power through paying lip service to the Church. Whether you chose to see Hitler as a fallen catholic or a catholic imposter my advice is to consider him in the same light you view Judas.

 

[Mom_of_one]

When does a baptized and confirmed Catholic cease to be Catholic? What does someone have to do/say to no longer be considered a Catholic? I am in a debate with a person who insists Adolph Hitler was a Catholic all his life and I am not sure that a person who denied Jesus was God and wanted to destroy Christianity could actually be considered a Catholic, even in name only.

 

[Church_Militant]

When does a baptized and confirmed Catholic cease to be Catholic?

What does someone have to do/say to no longer be considered a Catholic?

When they publicly and formally repudiate the faith.

Otherwise…as most of us know, we can be Catholic all the way into hell.

I am in a debate with a person who insists Adolph Hitler was a Catholic all his life and I am not sure that a person who denied Jesus was God and wanted to destroy Christianity could actually be considered a Catholic, even in name only.

Hitler founded his own Arian religion, (there was a great show on this on one of the History Channel 5 parts.). In so doing he would have ceased to be Catholic in the eyes of the church since that would qualify under the conditions mentioned above.

He ceased to profess Catholicism, so she’s talking through her hat.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

When does a baptized and confirmed Catholic cease to be Catholic? What does someone have to do/say to no longer be considered a Catholic? I am in a debate with a person who insists Adolph Hitler was a Catholic all his life and I am not sure that a person who denied Jesus was God and wanted to destroy Christianity could actually be considered a Catholic, even in name only.

Being Catholic is more about how you live than about receiving sacraments. Whether Hitler receive some, or all sacraments is not relevant. This is the error in your friends thinking. Your friend probably thinks Once Saved Always Saved(OSAS) which is not a catholic teaching. Just as Judas was directly taught by Christ he to choose to work with evil. Hitler chose to work with evil. The church will work with anybody to direct and teach them.

 

[quasimodo]

An important aspect of this question is the purpose of excommunication. It is not a punitive measure. Rather it is medicinal.

What good would it do to prescribe medicine to a person who so thoroughly and enthusiastically embraced his disease?

Excommunication works only for those who would be devastated by exclusion from the sacraments. Hitler had already embraced that exclusion as his own. He would not have been motivated to seek reconciliation - the legitimate goal of excommunication.

It would have been perceived as an attempt by the church to insult and he would have returned the gesture enthusiastically.

There was nothing legitimate to be gained by such a gesture.

And nothing legitimate to be gained by pointing to the lack of excommunication as though it were some kind of defect on the church.

 

[promethius]

When does a baptized and confirmed Catholic cease to be Catholic? What does someone have to do/say to no longer be considered a Catholic? I am in a debate with a person who insists Adolph Hitler was a Catholic all his life and I am not sure that a person who denied Jesus was God and wanted to destroy Christianity could actually be considered a Catholic, even in name only.

I’ll add to some of the other answers on this one.

A person becomes no longer catholic at such time as they:

1. join another faith
2. publicly or privately denounce the faith (Catholicity is expressed between God and each man)
3. is excommunicated by leadership of the church
4. commits sins so grave that they latae excommunicae (sp?)

Hitler met most of those conditions. His actions in ethnic cleansing alone caused his own defacto excommunication because the nature of his sin was such that it murdered the state of grace in his soul and severed ties between himself and God/the Church in one fell swoop.

The same situation holds true for those who procure an abortion. They automatically ‘self-excommunicate’… although in their case they can repent and return to the church.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Since Adolph Hitler was baptized a Catholic, I understand that made him a Catholic. Was he considered a lapsed Catholic by the Church? Was Adolph Hitler excommunicated? If so, when? If not, why not?

Hitler was not excommunicated. Plain and Simple. But do not hold this agains Pius XII. He was advised by both Catholic and Jewish leaders to not do so.

Bishop Jean Bernard of Luxembourg (who was an inmate at Dachau for 18 months) told the Vatican that “Whenever protests were made, treatment of prisoners worsened immediately” [Dalin]

When Bishop Cemens August von Galen of Munster wished to speak out against the persecution of the Jews, Jewish leaders begged him not to do so.

As several leaders of Italian Jewry said "“None of us wanted the pope to speak out openly. We were all fugitives and did not want to be pointed as such” [Lapide]

Finally, Marcus Melchior, former chief rabbi of Denmark, said “it is an error to think that Pius XII could have had any influence whatsoever on the brain of a madman. If the pope had spoken out, Hitler would probably have massacred more than six million Jews and perhaps ten times ten million Catholics” [Rhodes]

David G. Dalin “Pius XII and the Jews” Weekly_Standard 2/26/2001 page 34.

Pinchas Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews Hawthorn Books 1967

Anthony Rhodes The Vatican in the Age of the Dictators, 1922-1945 Holt Rinehart and Winston. 1973

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

According to this site and others, German Bishops excommunicated all members of the Nazi party, including Hitler, in February 1931.

In February 1931, the German bishops excommunicated all active Nazi party members. This included Hitler. This penalty was not imposed on those who merely voted Nazi. It was hoped to persuade them by argument. The same policy was in operation against the Communists.