Hitler believed in predestination, a belief that leads many to Hell..

[distracted]

Predestination is a very dangerous belief…

Hitler believed he was predestined to take over Europe… He believed God ordained him to be ruler (probably of the whole world).

Of course, if one believes such things, one will also believe that everything one does or neglects to do in the fulfillment of such a goal, is justified - The end justifies the means…

There is evidence that Hitler is in Hell (for all his talk of “God” - his version thereof).

Comments?

 

[TriuneUnity]

Predestination is a very dangerous belief…

Hitler believed he was predestined to take over Europe… He believed God ordained him to be ruler (probably of the whole world).

Of course, if one believes such things, one will also believe that everything one does or neglects to do in the fulfillment of such a goal, is justified - The end justifies the means…

There is evidence that Hitler is in Hell (for all his talk of “God” - his version thereof).

Comments?

Sure. Unbiblical predestination does not disprove biblical predestination. According to your theory, since St. Paul wrote about predestination, Paul would have to hold an equivalent position as Hitler; as would Augustine and Aquinas.

By the way, you talk about Hitler way too much.

 

[katze]

Sure. Unbiblical predestination does not disprove biblical predestination. According to your theory, since St. Paul wrote about predestination, Paul would have to hold an equivalent position as Hitler; as would Augustine and Aquinas.

By the way, you talk about Hitler way too much.

I agree. If you disagree with Predestination you also must disagree with St. Paul, Augustine,the Council of Orange, and Acquinas as well the majority of Protestant Reformers. The trouble with Rome at the Council of Trent and after is that they brought Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism back into the Church and continue to do so.

 

[distracted]

Paul did not believe in predestination. He was a Catholic and Ctholics don’t bleieve in that…

And by the way, i don’t care what you think i talk about too much. I have a right to be myself…

 

[distracted]

I agree. If you disagree with Predestination you also must disagree with St. Paul, Augustine,the Council of Orange, and Acquinas as well the majority of Protestant Reformers. The trouble with Rome at the Council of Trent and after is that they brought Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism back into the Church and continue to do so.

i cannot effectively argue or discuss with someone who gets their info only from Protestant sources, which i am sure is the case here… You almost have to be Catholic to fully understand what it means to be Catholic… and so… i see nothing but a steep uphill climb… attempting to convince you of anything…

 

[TriuneUnity]

Paul did not believe in predestination. He was a Catholic and Ctholics don’t bleieve in that…

And by the way, i don’t care what you think i talk about too much. I have a right to be myself…

Eph 1-5: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption.

He didn’t?

 

[TriuneUnity]

Paul did not believe in predestination. He was a Catholic and Ctholics don’t bleieve in that…

And by the way, i don’t care what you think i talk about too much. I have a right to be myself…

Here is Augustine on predestination…or should I call him Mein Churchfeurer:

“‘Therefore,’ says the Pelagian, ‘He foreknew who would be holy and immaculate by the choice of free will, and on that account elected them before the foundation of the world in that same foreknowledge of His in which He foreknew that they would be such. Therefore He elected them,’ says he, ‘before they existed, predestinating them to be children whom He foreknew to be holy and immaculate. Certainly He did not make them so; nor did He foresee that He would make them so, but that they would be so.’ Let us, then, look into the words of the apostle and see whether He chose us before the foundation of the world because we were going to be holy and immaculate, or in order that we might be so. ‘Blessed,’ says he, ‘be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us in all spiritual blessing in the heavens in Christ; even as He hath chosen us in Himself before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted.’ [Eph. i. 3] Not, then, because we were to be so, but that we might be so. Assuredly it is certain,–assuredly it is manifest. Certainly we were to be such for the reason that He has chosen us, predestinating us to be such by His grace.”

 

[Peter_J]

Predestination is a very dangerous belief…

Hitler believed he was predestined to take over Europe… He believed God ordained him to be ruler (probably of the whole world).

Of course, if one believes such things, one will also believe that everything one does or neglects to do in the fulfillment of such a goal, is justified - The end justifies the means…

There is evidence that Hitler is in Hell (for all his talk of “God” - his version thereof).

Comments?

More a question than a comment: Why are you arguing guilt-by-association? Are you deliberating trying to lose credibility?

 

[Reformed]

Paul did not believe in predestination. He was a Catholic and Ctholics don’t bleieve in that…

And by the way, i don’t care what you think i talk about too much. I have a right to be myself…

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

• Rom 8 and the Apostle Paul

Have you studied much of Augustine?

 

[katze]

i cannot effectively argue or discuss with someone who gets their info only from Protestant sources, which i am sure is the case here… You almost have to be Catholic to fully understand what it means to be Catholic… and so… i see nothing but a steep uphill climb… attempting to convince you of anything…

St. Augustine and Thomas Acquinas are not Protestants. The Roman Catholic Church considers them Saints and Doctors of the Church. The trouble with too many modern Roman Catholics is that they are actually Pelagians or Semi-Pelagians, which BTW was condemned as heresy by St. Augustine and later the Council of Orange.

 

[Reformed]

St. Augustine and Thomas Acquinas are not Protestants. The Roman Catholic Church considers them Saints and Doctors of the Church. The trouble with too many modern Roman Catholics is that they are actually Pelagians or Semi-Pelagians, which BTW was condemned as heresy by St. Augustine and later the Council of Orange.

I once stated the Catholicism is semi-pelagius and I got hung by the angry crowd. Are you saying Roman Catholicism is Augustinian in regards to predestination. I always thought Rome had a theology on synergism and not monergism.

BTW… Augustine was pre-reformation. I personally think if he lived in the 16th century, Augustine would by a famous Protestant Reformer too. Predestnation was taught with great force by Luther and Calvin. Predestination was taught by Augustine. And finally, we know Paul, John, and Jesus taught predestination to the glory of God. Read the gospel of John everyone.

 

[katze]

I once stated the Catholicism is semi-pelagius and I got hung by the angry crowd. Are you saying Roman Catholicism is Augustinian in regards to predestination. I always thought Rome had a theology on synergism and not monergism.

BTW… Augustine was pre-reformation. I personally think if he lived in the 16th century, Augustine would by a famous Protestant Reformer too. Predestnation was taught with great force by Luther and Calvin. Predestination was taught by Augustine. And finally, we know Paul, John, and Jesus taught predestination to the glory of God. Read the gospel of John everyone.

Unfortunately at the Council of Trent Rome chose Pelagianism at worst and Semi-Pelagianism at best. Post-Tridentine Roman Catholicism is definitely not Augustinian or even Thomistic. It is what in Protestant circles would be called Arminian. I agree with R.C. Sproul when he says that at Trent Rome anathemised not the Protestant Reformers but the Gospel itself. By denying Justification by Grace through Faith, Rome brought back in the tired old Heresy of Semi-Pelagianism and “Merit” and “works-righteousness” that St. Paul called “another Gospel” and rightly condemned.

Sign me “Catholic, but not Roman”.

 

[Reformed]

Unfortunately at the Council of Trent Rome chose Pelagianism at worst and Semi-Pelagianism at best. Post-Tridentine Roman Catholicism is definitely not Augustinian or even Thomistic. It is what in Protestant circles would be called Arminian. I agree with R.C. Sproul when he says that at Trent Rome anathemised not the Protestant Reformers but the Gospel itself. By denying Justification by Grace through Faith, Rome brought back in the tired old Heresy of Semi-Pelagianism and “Merit” and “works-righteousness” that St. Paul called “another Gospel” and rightly condemned.

Sign me “Catholic, but not Roman”.

Glad to have you on this forum site. The elect of God is everywhere, so continue to share the truth in love.

 

[Reformed]

Unfortunately at the Council of Trent Rome chose Pelagianism at worst and Semi-Pelagianism at best. Post-Tridentine Roman Catholicism is definitely not Augustinian or even Thomistic. It is what in Protestant circles would be called Arminian. I agree with R.C. Sproul when he says that at Trent Rome anathemised not the Protestant Reformers but the Gospel itself. By denying Justification by Grace through Faith, Rome brought back in the tired old Heresy of Semi-Pelagianism and “Merit” and “works-righteousness” that St. Paul called “another Gospel” and rightly condemned.

Sign me “Catholic, but not Roman”.

Glad to have you on this forum site. The elect of God is everywhere, so continue to share the truth in love.

2 Timothy 2:10

Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[holly_potter]

Paul did not believe in predestination. He was a Catholic and Ctholics don’t bleieve in that…

Umm…Catholics can indeed believe in predestination, just so you know. Just not double-predestination.

Catholics believe in single predestination–God chose some to be the elect, and then there’s everybody else (i.e. He created Mary to be sinless)

Many Protestants believe in double predestination–God chose some to be the elect, and He chose the rest to be reprobates.

Just clarifying something. I had thought for a long time that predestination was wrong, until I started reading works by Catholic apologists, and the Catechism, and the Bible, and realized that, indeed, single predestination is something taught in the Bible and by Augustine (and Aquinas? I forget). It’s just to the extent of predestination that is contentious to Protestants, still.

My two cents, I thought I ought to share. And if these comments get flamed cough cough, you know who you are I’ll pray a decade of rosary for you If you continue to flame me, I’ll ask saints’ intercessions for you.

Sharing Bible verses is not flaming.
Sharing Bible verses in an aggressive manner order to satisfy your need to exert superiority over Catholicism on a Catholic thread that is charitably allowing your account to remain open is not charitable in return. Paul taught meekness in spreading the Gospel. Perhaps you should heed his teachings and sit back for a few days, eh? Contemplate what Paul taught his disciples to do, when they were spreading the gospel.

 

[katze]

Glad to have you on this forum site. The elect of God is everywhere, so continue to share the truth in love.

2 Timothy 2:10

Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

I see your nic is “Reformed” so I take it that you belong to a Church in the Reformed tradition. Pleased to meet you. I belong to the Reformed Episcopal Church which strongly adheres to the 39 Articles of Religion of the Anglican Way. So no jokes about Gay Bishops or “Episcopal Priestesses” . The REC does not ordain Gays or Womyn ( or is that Women?) as Deacons, Presbyters, or Bishops.

Sign me “Catholic, but not Roman.”

 

[rick43235]

…

There is evidence that Hitler is in Hell

What “evidence” is that?

 

[Reformed]

Umm…Catholics can indeed believe in predestination, just so you know. Just not double-predestination.

Catholics believe in single predestination–God chose some to be the elect, and then there’s everybody else (i.e. He created Mary to be sinless)

Many Protestants believe in double predestination–God chose some to be the elect, and He chose the rest to be reprobates.

Just clarifying something. I had thought for a long time that predestination was wrong, until I started reading works by Catholic apologists, and the Catechism, and the Bible, and realized that, indeed, single predestination is something taught in the Bible and by Augustine (and Aquinas? I forget). It’s just to the extent of predestination that is contentious to Protestants, still.

My two cents, I thought I ought to share. And if these comments get flamed cough cough, you know who you are I’ll pray a decade of rosary for you If you continue to flame me, I’ll ask saints’ intercessions for you.

Sharing Bible verses is not flaming.
Sharing Bible verses in an aggressive manner order to satisfy your need to exert superiority over Catholicism on a Catholic thread that is charitably allowing your account to remain open is not charitable in return. Paul taught meekness in spreading the Gospel. Perhaps you should heed his teachings and sit back for a few days, eh? Contemplate what Paul taught his disciples to do, when they were spreading the gospel.

For the record, I think most contemporary Protestants do not believe in single or double predestination. Most contemporary Protestants are arminian brothers and sisters. I used to believe in single predestination until I understood biblical double predestination. I think most people misunderstand double predestination. Please read if you are offended by double predestination by RC Sproul.

glenwoodhills.org/etc/printer-friendly.asp?ID=279

 

[Reformed]

I see your nic is “Reformed” so I take it that you belong to a Church in the Reformed tradition. Pleased to meet you. I belong to the Reformed Episcopal Church which strongly adheres to the 39 Articles of Religion of the Anglican Way. So no jokes about Gay Bishops or “Episcopal Priestesses” . The REC does not ordain Gays or Womyn ( or is that Women?) as Deacons, Presbyters, or Bishops.

Sign me “Catholic, but not Roman.”

I read some of the 39 Articles of Faith and found it to be very edifying and true. I was actually shocked to find it to be so Reformed and Calvinistic (biblical).

 

[holly_potter]

For the record, I think most contemporary Protestants do not believe in single or double predestination. Most contemporary Protestants are arminian brothers and sisters. I used to believe in single predestination until I understood biblical double predestination. I think most people misunderstand double predestination. Please read if you are offended by double predestination by RC Sproul.

glenwoodhills.org/etc/printer-friendly.asp?ID=279

Not offended nor do I misunderstand double-predestination I’ve got a Presbyterian boyfriend, and we talk about religion and tease each other about predestination and grace and redemption a lot. But thanks for the clarification on the general Protestant view, I thought predestination was a given. I’ll take a look at the link sometime when I have time. Right now I’m busy with reading Augustine!