Hitler believed in predestination, a belief that leads many to Hell..

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God could have chosen ALL sinners to be saved- but He did not. He chose to elect some and chose NOT to elect others.
No offense… but if i can be honest about my first reaction to this, This is NUTS! God choose ALL to be saved… ALL!! In the Bible it says He is not willign that ANY should perish…
So when God chooses not to save a man- ]He (knowing the end from the beginning) has clearly purposed to leave this sinner to himself- and has purposed to give him the just reward of his wicked works. That reward is eternal damnation.
i don’t know what religion you are but you are not in the right one, that’s for sure… (again, just being honest)

God bless you in your search for Him… (The will of God will be accomplisshed through Christ [Isaiah 50-something])… To accept Christ means accepting His Church… the Catholic Church… You may not like that truth… but obviously truth does not change becauase people don’t like it…
 
i cannot understand where you are coming from. Do you believe in absolute free will or not?? :confused:
That depends on how you define- “absolute free-will”

We do not deny that we make real choices. We don’t even deny that men make free choices. Every choice we make is completely voluntary. All we are saying is that our choices are not made without reasons. Our choices do not just arise out of thin air. They are not spontaneous and unpredictable. They are not untraceable; but rather, each and every decision we make has a cause. In other words, there is a real reason why I decide one way and not another. And that reason does not come from without me, or apart from me; it comes from within me.

This is what makes me responsible for my choices. All my choices are in accordance with who I am. We are not technologically programmed to do what we do, as robots are, rather we simply do what we do in accordance with who we are- by nature.

Jesus said that a tree is known by its own fruit. “Every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.” (Matthew 7:17) “For figs are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush.” (Luke 6:44) Jesus is not saying that men do not make choices- he simply teaches that unregenerate men, because of their fallen, depraved, and sinful natures, naturally and consistently make sinful choices. Our choices are a product of our natures.

An important thing to remember is that there is a major difference between being forced to do something, and simply doing something by necessity for lack of other options. Men are not forced to commit sinful acts, nor are they forced to make sinful choices, as puppets would be, however when the choices that men do make are issued from corrupted hearts and minds, those choices are by necessity, qualitatively corrupt. For instance, a man is free to speak or not to speak, no one forces him to do one or the other. But when that man chooses to speak, he then must draw his words from the well of a poisoned heart. So this man was free to speak, but by necessity, that which flows out of his mouth will be that which his heart naturally produces. “The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” (Luke 6:45) “A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.” (Matthew 7:18) Jesus is not teaching here of coercion, but is simply speaking of the necessity of producing that which is according to nature.

Likewise, we do not teach that men are coerced by outside forces- though we do not entirely dismiss the fact that outside influences play a huge part in the decisions we make. God uses various means to fulfill His purposes, and this we do not deny. But in no way do Calvinists teach that men are merely robots or puppets on strings as some would accuse us to believe. Rather, we say with Jesus that men’s choices are determined by their natures, just as a tree’s fruit will be determined by the type and the quality of the tree. This is clearly what our Lord consistently taught. “O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” (Matthew 12:34)

What we must continue to communicate to these “Free-willers” is that all men without exception are “by nature children of wrath” - (Ephesians 2:3) Before conversion, all men are fallen, depraved, and spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:5, Colossians 2:13). We have corrupted hearts (Genesis 6:5, Jeremiah 17:9) and corrupted minds (Romans 1:28, Colossians 1:21). The Bible plainly teaches that by nature we are at enmity with God and hostile toward the gospel (Romans 8:7, 8). And that therefore, since we are bound to act and to choose according to our natures – we need to explain to them where that actually leaves us. It leaves us in desperate need of a Savior; one who can actually save us, not merely “invite” us to be saved.

So is our problem that we need to be free to choose? No of course not, we are already free to choose. The problem then, is not so much of what we do, as it is of what we are. This is the real issue. We choose to sin because we are sinners, and not the other way around. And so what we really need is - not to be free to choose, but to be freed from the bondage of our sinful natures! Plain and simple. We need to be transformed by the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit; that is - we need to be born again; having our fallen and depraved natures supernaturally renovated, and our blind eyes opened to the glory of the sovereign Son of God.

Now how this relates to Predistination I will be happy to explain- but I am at work right now- so I will hit you up a little bit later!
 
It is my understanding that the word predestination in the Bible is speaking about the eternal destinies of individuals. Does anyone agree or disagree? I understand divine providence and the sovereignity of God.
Correct. That is my understaning too, if I’m following you correctly. There is a reallity behind God, that is all humankind comes from God (He who creates out of love), and ultimately whether you want to or not, you are going back to Him, then He will Judge. In this context, you can see how the letters of St. Paul, and Scriptures make sense. However, what I don’t think is right to say, is that God created some to be Saved and some to be condemned, this is false teaching and it’s not Biblical. People condemn themselves. The Father wills humanity to be saved in the Glory of His name, not the other way around.

I’ve given this idea of Predestination some thought as many thinkers in the late centuries have done. I think that all throughtout the Universe there is a vast number of predispositions that occur through natural processes. That is to say, there is a beginning and an end. For example, the position of stars can be calcuated through mathematics, and are predetermined. Mathematics can also give us a number of equations or predetermined rules, in which we can further develop our understanding of nature. However, within the human mind, or the human reality these predispositions do not exist. The reason is, God created humanity in His own likeness and image. If you read in Genesis, you hear testimony that the human mind, the human reality is created as the latter part of His creation, and carries with it a piece or a reflection of the Mind of God.
 
No offense… but if i can be honest about my first reaction to this, This is NUTS! God choose ALL to be saved… ALL!! In the Bible it says He is not willign that ANY should perish… i don’t know what religion you are but you are not in the right one, that’s for sure… (again, just being honest)

You cite 2 Peter 3:9- I have already given a full exegesis on that passage- and I posted it already.

You speak out of ignorance of Historical Protestantism- ever heard of John Calvin, martin Luther, St. Augustine? They all taught what I beleive.

Jesus, paul, Peter, and John- All taught what I beleive.

Please do your research- it’s called the Doctrines of Grace.
 
Do you mind sharing the distinct differences that you stated. I have read more writings of Calvin than Luther. But, I thought Luther taught predestination with greater force than Calvin. I also have read works by Augustine too. Please help me understand what you are sharing. I believe Augustine influenced both Luther and Calvin, but I could be wrong. Without the complete sovereignty of God in all things including salvation of sinners (predestination), can we trust God to accomplish all that He promises in His Word (the Bible)?
TriuneUnity already answered the first part; but for the last part (bolded) I would like to ask you: doesn’t “complete sovereignty of God in all things” include God being able to create beings with free will?
 
TriuneUnity already answered the first part; but for the last part (bolded) I would like to ask you: doesn’t “complete sovereignty of God in all things” include God being able to create beings with free will?
There’s no free will with a fallen nature. Consider Romans 6, and even the writings of Augustine. We are all born into this world with a will inclined to sin. Free will is a humanistic idea, but not a Christian doctrine (both Catholic and Protestant). There cannot be two sovereigns in the universe. Either God is sovereign or man is sovereign in salvation.
 
distracted;4120562:
No offense… but if i can be honest about my first reaction to this, This is NUTS! God choose ALL to be saved… ALL!! In the Bible it says He is not willign that ANY should perish… i don’t know what religion you are but you are not in the right one, that’s for sure… (again, just being honest)

You cite 2 Peter 3:9- I have already given a full exegesis on that passage- and I posted it already.

You speak out of ignorance of Historical Protestantism- ever heard of John Calvin, martin Luther, St. Augustine? They all taught what I beleive.

Jesus, paul, Peter, and John- All taught what I beleive.

Please do your research- it’s called the Doctrines of Grace.
i don’t need to study anyone but Jesus (and what His Church teaches).
 
Indeed- if you believe in a God who makes a choice- and becomes the unhappy victim of some unavoidable consequence- then you are an idolater- period. :bowdown: Your god is no God at all- only a figment of your vain religious imagination.
What insolence, what arrogance, this sounds much like the Pharisees of old! Are you saying that God did not willfully die for you, out of love? This is what happens when you separate Jesus from the Cross. My friend, God is not some nebulus misconception that exists out there in the ether (or whatever you want to call it). He is a man. He humbled himself, and became flesh in Jesus. Out of Love, he created you from the foundations of the Earth, and even went as low as dying for you. I think you would do well studying the life of Christ and meditate on what he did.
 
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