Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop

[latin_rite]

" Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop"
Was they given the power or did they take it?
I am figuring they did what china is trying to do now.

 

[Trishie]

Posting an assertion like that proper sources requires proper sources.
It sounds like anti-Catholic propaganda.
People often accept as true what are only serious attempts to discredit the Catholic Church.
God bless you.

Election of new Pope:
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0792.html

 

[kama3]

From the Reichskonkordat: concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=858&kb_header_id=752&kb_id=1211

Article 14

As a matter of principle the Church retains the right to appoint freely to all Church offices and benefices without the involvement of the state or of civil groups, in so far as other provisions have not been made in previous concordats mentioned in Article 2.

Concerning the appointment of bishops’ sees, the regulation made for appointment of the two suffragan [8] bishoprics of Rottenburg and Mainz, as well as for the bishopric of Meissen, is to be duly applied to the metropolitan see of the Upper Rhine Ecclesiastical Province of Freiburg. The same holds for the two first named suffragan bishops with regard to appointments to the cathedral chapter, and for the administration of the right of patronage [9].

Furthermore, there is agreement on the following points:

1. Catholic clerics who hold an ecclesiastical office in Germany or who exercise pastoral or educational functions must:

(a) be German citizens,
(b) have earned a secondary-school graduation certificate which permits study at an institution of higher learning,
(c) have studied philosophy and theology for at least three years at a German state university, a German ecclesiastical college, or a papal college in Rome.

1. The bull nominating archbishops, bishops, coadjutors cum jure successionis [10] or a praelatus nullius [11] will not be issued until the name of the appointee has been submitted to the Reich governor in the relevant state (Land), and until it has been ascertained that there are no objections of a general political nature. In the case of an agreement between Church and state, Paragraph 1, sections (a) (b) and (c) may be disregarded or set aside.

No right of the State to assert a veto is to be based on this Article.

Supplementary Protocol

At the signing of the concordat concluded today between the Holy See and the German Reich, the properly authorised undersigned have submitted the following agreed-upon explanations which form an integral part of the concordat itself.

…]

Re Article 14, Par. 2, No. 2

It is understood that when objections of a general political nature exist, they shall be presented within the shortest possible time. If after twenty days such a declaration has not been made, the Holy See will be justified in assuming that no objections exist to the candidate. The names of those being considered will be kept confidential until the announcement of the appointment.

 

[kama3]

Agreement between the Spanish Government and the Holy See, of June 7, 1941, on the Way in which the Privilege of Presentation is to Be Exercised.

The Spanish Government and the Holy See have agreed on the following points:

1. As soon as a vacancy shall arise in an Archiepiscopal or Episcopal See (or in Apostolic Administration), or when the Holy See shall deem it necessary to appoint a Coadjutor with right of succession, the Apostolic Nuncio shall make contact in a confidential manner with the Spanish Government, and once an agreement in principle is reached, he shall send to the Holy See a list of names of suitable persons, the number of at least six.

1. The Holy Father shall select three of these names, and shall communicate them to the Spanish Government through the Apostolic Nunciature, whereupon the Head of State shall officially present one of the three within a space of thirty days.

1. If the Holy Father, in his high judgment, should not deem all or some of the names in the list to be acceptable, and should thus be unable to choose three or any one of them, he shall on his own initiative complete or specify a trio of candidates, and communicate this through the same channel to the Spanish Government.
   If the latter should have objections of a general political character to all or any of the new names, it shall declare them to the Holy See.
   Should thirty days elapse from the date of the aforesaid communication without a reply from the Government, its silence shall be taken to imply that it has no objections of that nature to the new names, and it shall be understood that the Head of State will then, without more ado, present to His Holiness one of the candidates included in the said trio.
   On the other hand, if the Government states such objections, negotiations shall continue, even after the expiry of the thirty days.

…]

concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=845&kb_header_id=34551

 

[kama3]

Vatican’s treaty with Mussolini: aloha.net/~mikesch/treaty.htm

Lateran Pacts of 1929

…]

Art. 19. The choice of Archbishops and Bishops belongs to the Holy See.

First before proceeding to the nomination of an Archbishop, a Diocesan Bishop or a coadjutor with right of succession, the Holy See shall communicate the name of the person chosen to the italian Government so as to be assured by the same that it has no reason of a political character to offer against the nomination.

The relative practice shall be performed with the greatest possible care and with every reserve so that the name of the person chosen shall remain secret.

Art. 20. Bishops before taking possession of their dioceses shall take an oath of fidelity to the head of the State according to the following formula:

Before God and his Holy Gospels I swear and promise on becoming a Bishop fidelity to the Italian State. I swear and promise to respect and make respected by my clergy the King and the Government established according to the constitutional laws of the State. I swear and promise moreover that I shall not participate in any agreement or any counsel that can damage the Italian State and the public order and I shall not allow to my clergy such participation. I shall concern myself with the well-being and interests of the Italian State and endeavour to avert any danger that can possibly menace it.

Contrast the 3 above treaties with the following: concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=931&kb_header_id=1331

Concordat between the Holy See and the Republic of Poland.

Signed 28 July 1993

[Ratified 23 February 1998]

…]

Article 7

1. Ecclesiastical offices shall be provided by the competent Church authority in accordance with the provisions of Canon Law.

1. The appointment and removal of bishops resides exclusively with the Holy See.

1. The Holy See shall appoint bishops in Poland from amongst clerics who are Polish citizens.

1. Prior to a public announcement of the appointment of a diocesan bishop, the Holy See shall make known his name in confidence at an opportune time to the Government of the Republic of Poland. All possible steps will be taken to ensure that such a communication is made promptly.

 

[Hokomai]

Did the agreement saying that Bishops had to be German citizens happen after Jews were deprived of their citizenship?If so the Church was agreeing to not even propose a person of Jewish descent (not faith) for a post. Not good.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Did the agreement saying that Bishops had to be German citizens happen after Jews were deprived of their citizenship?If so the Church was agreeing to not even propose a person of Jewish descent (not faith) for a post. Not good.

Reichskonkordat (Treaty between Holy See and Nazi government), ** 20 July, 1933**

Nuremberg Laws (depriving German Jews of citizenship), 15 September, 1935

Mit Brennender Sorge (With Burning Anxiety). Letter from Pope Pius XI to German Catholics, condemning breaches of the Concordat, and criticised various elements of Nazism. 10 March 1937

The encyclical condemned particularly the paganism of the national-socialism ideology, the myth of race and blood, and the fallacy of their conception of God. It warned Catholics that the growing Nazi ideology, which exalted one race over all others, was incompatible with Catholic Christianity.

[Wikipedia]

 

[Ghosty]

They may have been given the power, and if so it’s no big deal. Appointment of Bishops was not always as it is today. There was a time when Bishops were selected by the populace by popular acclaim, and then ordained by other local Bishops with the Pope having no role whatsoever.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Richard320]

So were the Polish Communists. They made a big mistake when they okayed Karol Wojtyła.

 

[tafan]

So were the Polish Communists. They made a big mistake when they okayed Karol Wojtyła.

Quite true. An agreement between the Church and the Policsh Communist government did give the communist government veto power of appointments. IIRC, Karol Wojtyła was the third attempt by the Vatican to get the government to agree on an Archbishop of Krakow. The communists agreed because he was an academic, and they knew that Cardinal Wyszyński had a distrust of academic professors. They were hoping the two Bishops of Poland would not get along or agree on things. But Wyszyński was also a genius at outwitting the communists, and Wojtyła would never show any public rift with the Primate of Poland.