Hitler's Pope...tried to depose Hitler?!?

[nordskoven]

reformation.org/hitler_pope.html

Reading an excerpt from Hitler’s Pope, the revile-atory vs. revelatory motive was exposed in the author’s noting that Pius XII participated in a plot to depose Hitler. Uh…Hitler’s Pope tried to depose Hitler?!? The best answer to all the snarky cheap shots, including those aimed at Jews presumed to be too stupid to have known and even experienced Pius XII’s Underground Railroad hiding Jews, is the book, LA POPESSA about Pius XII’s right hand woman, Sister Pascalina.

All the gory details are there, with Cardinal Pacelli (before he became Pius XII) being threatened at gunpoint by Communists. Communism had many Jewish leaders who were eradicated by their Russian confreres. Pacelli despised Communists and hoped to keep Germany free from what he thought was the overriding evil, Communism. Pius XII had lived through the Great War, and had seen the inflammatory propaganda, and was truly unaware of the “Final Solution” because he did not believe the rumors. Pius XII did, however, contact Franklin Delano Roosevelt who did confirm the rumors of death camps. Pius XII had a secret network that included Bavarian Sister Pascalina, who printed off fake Baptismal Certificates for Jews in the basement of the Vatican.

Truth will set us free, Most Holy Trinity. Give all an appetite for truth and liberate us from the hidden evils that surround us. AMEN

 

[Adeodatus]

Check out The Myth of Hitler’s Pope by Rabbi David Dalin. It explodes the myths, Marxist propaganda and outright lies that have been used to smear Pius XII. It also catalogs all the praise heaped upon Pius XII by his Jewish friends and allies during his time (before the posthumous myth was invented by a German Leftist).

Rabbi Dalin is outraged that the Shoah, of all things, would be used as a playing piece in the power plays of Liberal Catholics in order to undermine traditional Judeo-Christian values. I share his outrage.

The fact that the whole thing was dreamed up by a German socialist (Rolf Hochhuth) who has spoken out in defense of Holocaust negationist David Irving makes the thing so appalling it borders on the absolute of ridiculousness.

I mean, think about it. A Pope who was hailed as a friend of the Jews by the Jews for his opposition to Adolf Hitler, a Pope whose personal interventioned saved an estimated 800,000 Jews from the Nazis, has had his reputation ruined by a German who is friends with a Holocaust denier.

 

[Kaninchen]

I mean, think about it. A Pope who was hailed as a friend of the Jews by the Jews for his opposition to Adolf Hitler, a Pope whose personal interventioned saved an estimated 800,000 Jews from the Nazis, has had his reputation ruined by a German who is friends with a Holocaust denier.

While there are thousands of apologetics websites that quote the 860,000 figure, there is only one source for it and that’s Pinchas Lapide (largely via David Dalin) and it’s just not viable - you’d find it very difficult to find an academic historian of the era who’d agree.

That’s not to say that I’m criticising Pius or saying that he was not responsible for saving the lives of a large number of Jews, just that Lapide’s calculations were taken ‘out of the air’.

 

[Adeodatus]

While there are thousands of apologetics websites that quote the 860,000 figure, there is only one source for it and that’s Pinchas Lapide (largely via David Dalin) and it’s just not viable - you’d find it very difficult to find an academic historian of the era who’d agree.

That’s not to say that I’m criticising Pius or saying that he was not responsible for saving the lives of a large number of Jews, just that Lapide’s calculations were taken ‘out of the air’.

Thank you for that information. From what I know of Lapide and Rabbi Dalin, they seem trustworthy, but you’re right to bring up the issue of verification.

On the larger issue… one of history’s most Philo-Semitic Popes being smeared by a German socialist connected to Holocaust denial… I just can’t take it.

If you’re interested in an engaging narrative about a very bizarre episode in Negationism (courtesy of Comrade Hochhuth’s buddy, David Irving), read History on Trial by Deborah Lipstadt. She is a disappointing speaker, and stupidly criticized the Pope for lifting the SSPX excommunications, but she is an excellent writer and, as one of my mentors in Catholic philosophy put it, “the real deal” when it comes to the history of the Shoah.

 

[faithfully]

I find this write up useful Pope Pius XII and the Holocoust

From this essay: This was interesting: The charity and work of Pope Pius XII during World War II so impressed the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, that in 1944 he was open to the grace of God which led him into the Catholic faith. As his baptismal name, he took the same one Pius had, Eugenio, as his own. Later Israel Eugenio Zolli wrote a book entitled, Why I Became a Catholic.

Then there are the articles at least documented from Time magazine. Where the Pope made reference to the holocaust.

It seems reasonable that it would not be wise to inflame Hitler to the point of killing more just because someone in power spoke out against him.

It would be interesting to see where the 860,000 # came from. Or if the church has some sort of documented proof. Hitler was most certainly freakish about keeping records.

The final statement of this essay is important to remember. This statement lends itself to todays scandel of child abuse as well.

I also find write ups like this interesting.
Written by the child of a survivor

She also has a list of the others. I never realized

I just DON’T get the feeling that the Pope was just ok with all of this. I do wonder about 100 years from now, will we blame Iraq, 9/11, the genocide in Africa on the Pope or his personal failure to stop it…

 

[faithfully]

another poster (rb2) posted this link

Interesting to note that is says that the Pope issued fake baptism records to protect people… Which would mean a record that the vatican has… wonder about that count…

 

[faithfully]

Sorry to be redundant of the OP… with my last statement…

 

[RobHom]

History has already borne out that the Catholic Church and its members went to great lengths despite the dangers to save many Jews during world war two…and that includes the Pope, who was cited in gratitude by Jewish Organizations after the war for saving many Jews and helping them to survive the holocaust and even make it to Israel.

I could, as any amateur hack, write an article that would make any target an absolutely horrendous enemy of mankind. If I chose to, I could even point out that the Reverend Billy Graham was a real scumbag, and heretic…But I would never even think to do so…because even though he was a Protestant…he openly rebelled against protestant establishment, suffering attacks from contemporaries…because he openly invited Catholic Priests to his functions to aid in the conversion of non-believers to Christianity…

But I won’t, because I believe that the truth will bear itself out when an intelligent and rational person looks beyond the veneer of “allegations”. And the Reverend Billy Graham was a “true believer among men who truly believed in Christ” and accepted Catholics as true members in the fellowship in Christ…

 

[RobHom]

another poster (rb2) posted this link

Interesting to note that is says that the Pope issued fake baptism records to protect people… Which would mean a record that the vatican has… wonder about that count…

Thank you for posting this link…

I cannot help but wonder…if the “detractors” of Pope Pius XII have ever bothered to read the documents produced by the Simon Wiesenthal and others in the world Jewish Community and the awards and accolades the Pope and the Church received from the Jewish People and the State of Israel after WWII…

religioustolerance.org/vat_hol12.htm

Detractors of the Pope…most of whom did not even live in the time they criticize…like to make charges against the Pope for his failures…Yet…one cannot help but wonder what they as individuals would have done in “opposition to the Nazi juggernaut” coupled with Mussolini’s rabble…

You have to love the “hindsight of historical” whiz-kids, or at the least the so called whizkids…

 

[Kaninchen]

Thank you for that information. From what I know of Lapide and Rabbi Dalin, they seem trustworthy, but you’re right to bring up the issue of verification.

It was something of a ‘back of an envelope guestimate’ job on Lapide’s part and I think it’s all rather detracted from the stories of Christians (Catholic and Protestants), singly or in organizations (like the Church itself), who did help individual Jews and groups of Jews.

On the larger issue… one of history’s most Philo-Semitic Popes being smeared by a German socialist connected to Holocaust denial… I just can’t take it.

If you’re interested in an engaging narrative about a very bizarre episode in Negationism (courtesy of Comrade Hochhuth’s buddy, David Irving), read History on Trial by Deborah Lipstadt. She is a disappointing speaker, and stupidly criticized the Pope for lifting the SSPX excommunications, but she is an excellent writer and, as one of my mentors in Catholic philosophy put it, “the real deal” when it comes to the history of the Shoah.

I’m not certain that Hochhuth was a socialist, by the way.

I come from German - who’d got out in time, ie before January 1933 - and Italian Jewish families, the historiography of Shoah is something I’ve followed with some interest.