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Lapell
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How I agree with you there!!As if Pope Pius was to blame for Hitler’s madness…but ya gotta blame somebody…
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estesbob
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Time to nip this "Pius XII supported (and or did nothng about) Nazi’s:
]The foremost Jewish Scholar of the Holocaust at its height in Hungary, Jeno Levai, insisted some years ago that it was a "particularly regrettable irony that the one person in all of occupied Europe who did more than anyone else to halt the dreadful crime and alleviate its consequences is today made the scapegoat for the failures of others."
]The Israeli diplomat and scholar Pinchas Lapide concluded his careful review of Pius XII’s wartime activities with the following words: “The Catholic Church under the pontificate of Pius XII was instrumental in saving lives of as many as 860,000 Jews from certain death at Nazi hands.” He went on to add that this “figure far exceeds those saved by all other Churches and rescue organizations combined.” After recounting statements of appreciation from a variety of preeminent Jewish spokespersons, he noted. “No Pope in history has been thanked more heartily by Jews . . . .Several suggested in open letters that a Pope Pius XII forest of 860,000 trees be planted on the hills of Judea in order to fittingly honor the memory of the late Pontiff (“Three Popes and the Jews” pp. 214–215).”** Levai in his own book did not hesitate to argue that the attacks on the Pope’s wartime record are “demonstrably malicious and fabricated . . . . The archives of the Vatican of diocesan authorities of Ribbentrop’s foreign ministry, contain a whole series of protests—direct and indirect, diplomatic and public, secret and open. The nuncios and bishops of the Catholic Church intervened again and again on the instructions of the Pope,” he wrote. Their interventions were just as unsuccessful as the demands and threats of the British and American governments. Moreover, the delicacy of the matter was often heightened by the fact that such protests could put Jews themselves and their protectors at additional corporal risk.
]Hungarian Jews and the Papacy: The former chief rabbi of Rome during the German occupation, Emilio Zolli, concluded his firsthand account of wartime events thus: “Volumes could be written on the multiform works of Pius XII, and the countless priests, religious and laity who stood with him throughout the world during the war.” “No hero,” he said, “in all of history was more militant, more fought against, none more heroic, than Pius XII in pursuing the works of true charity . . . and thus on behalf of all the suffering children of God.” Zolli was so moved by Pius XII’s work that he became a Catholic after the war and took the Pope’s name (Before the Dawn). Lapide acknowledged in his book that the Church* “in an endless flood of sermons, allocutions, pastoral letters and encyclicals was a clear and unrelenting foe to all forms of racism at the time, and everyone knew it—Jews, Poles, Russians and most ominously the Nazi secret police.”** Their files mention recalcitrant Catholic clergy in this regard more than any other group.
*]The New York Times in its Christmas editorials of 1941 and 1942 praised Pius XII for his moral leadership as a “lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent” and for, among other things, assailing “the violent occupation of territory, and the exile and persecution of human beings, for no other reason than race.” No other institution produced more heroes during the Holocaust than the Church: Italian, Slovak, French, Hungarian priests, nuns, and laypersons who risked and often gave their lives for the sake of persecuted Jews. This too deserves remembrance and respect.
*]Golda Meir, Israel’s representative to the United Nations, was the first of the delegates to react to the news of Pope Pius XII’s death. She sent an eloquent message: "We share in the grief of humanity at the passing away of His Holiness, Pope Pius XII. In a generation afflicted by wars and discords he upheld the highest ideals of peace and compassion. When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the Pope was raised for its victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out about great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace."
*]Leonard Bernstein, on learning of Pope Pius XII’s death while conducting his orchestra in New York’s Carnegie Hall, tapped his baton for a moment of silence to pay tribute to the Pope who had saved the lives of so many people without distinction of race, nationality, or religion.
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Cathdefender
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ESTESBOB, but somehow I feel some people actually know the good Pius did but still refuse to acknowledge it on these forums…
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estesbob
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The attacks on Pius XII have very little to do wiht his actions during World War II and much to do with the Church’s stance on abortion and homosexuality.
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Lapell
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hunter2
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Speculative history, mixed with actual history, mixed with revisionist history, in cartoon propaganda form? Not really. The question was about Hitler’s religion. I just tried to summarize the case for Hitler and the pope and the German Catholics all believing that Hitler was indeed a Catholic. At one point, I am told, he switched to another brand of Christianity. Maybe he was just faking it all, or believed it, or was an opportunist or a crazy-head combination of all these things. But based on what I’ve read, the German people believed him to be a Catholic during much of his holocausting adventures.
Further proof that the Catholics viewed Hitler as Catholic, and that he claimed to be one:In 1933 the Vatican signed a Concordat with Germany making Roman Catholicism the only recognized religion in that country.
Probably just strategic on Hitler’s part.
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Kaninchen
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estesbob
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This simply is not true.
The crucial Part from the standpoint of the Church was Article I
:Art. 1. The German Reich guarantees freedom of profession and public practice of the Catholic religion.
The Concorat in no way shape or form made the Catholic Church as the only recognized religion in Germany. What it did was gaurantee the Chruch the same freedom and funding as other Church’s in Germany. Some has tried to make an issue over the Church receving funding from the govt but this was because of the unique way Charitable giving was handled in Germany. A Fixed % was taken from every workers check and they got to designate who the funds would go to.
Note also that the Concordat specifially forbade the Church from getting involved in politics:
Art. 32. In view of the special situation existing in Germany, and in view of the guarantee provided through this Concordat of legislation directed to safeguard the rights and privileges of the Roman Catholic Church in the Reich and its component states, the Holy See will prescribe regulations for the exclusion of clergy and members of religious orders from membership of political parties, and from engaging in work on their behalf.
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hunter2
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As far as I can tell, it is all valid. Please check the facts. But you offer no facts. I was just summarizing the case for Hitler being regarded by the Catholics as Catholic. He may very well have been faking it. That would make perfect sense since he need the support of the people and the powerful influence of the Catholic hierarchy.
You say Hitler infiltrated the papers to make it look like he had the support of Catholics? Sure, why not.
here is more proof that Hitler at least pretended to be Catholic and that the Catholic hierarchy went along with it:
On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany” and added with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.”
Hitler and his soldiers celebrated Christmas, complete with Christmas trees and Santas.
Cardinals and Bishops and priests gave Nazi salutes and marched in Nazi parades.
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estesbob
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I think everyne should be aware that you are just cut n pasting information from anti-catholic sites and passing it off as your own; For instance the above can be found verbatim here:
nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
You have already copied statements that are demonstably false(like you ridicolous assertion theat the 1933 Concordat made the Catholic Church the only recognized religion in Germany.) The fact you have posted these falsehoods and are engaged in plagarism makes everything you say suspect.
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distracted
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i’ve heard of Blavatsky and Crowley… but what is Thule and Vril?
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distracted
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which proves the point i have often made: there is nothing worse than a “former Catholic”…
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Cathdefender
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Another anti-Catholic…good grief…
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Cathdefender
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Hitler was not a Catholic when these atrocities were committed, so don’t even say it shouldn’t of happened because he was a ‘former’ Catholic. It shouldn’t of happened period.
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d_floyd77
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Hitler worshiped power, plain and simple. His religion was that of becoming a god in his own mind. He was a self-absorbed maniac, no different than any other tyrant. His occult practices were based not on a search for any higher truth, but rather on a lust for transcendant power.
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RobHom
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It never fails…someone crawls out of a cesspool and alleges that Adolf Hitler “was a Catholic”. That smacks heartily of a foolish and gullible mind absorbing the claptrap absorbed by another foolish and gullible mind then regurgitated.
The fact is…that Hitler was born into a Catholic family…but he fell away from the Church rather early in the game and could hardly be considered even a nominal Catholic. In fact…he was clearly “anti-Catholic” long before he even wrote “Mein Kampf”. Here is several sources for some of that information:
bede.org.uk/hitler.htm
constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id2.html
americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=10539
Hitler’s “catholic-ness” was probably about as much as the average atheist…
Hitler and his lackeys were working at producing their own “church”…with all the bells and whistles.
If you look closely at sites that make the claims that Hitler was a Catholic, yada, yada…they are protestant sites with their very own special agendas. But they fail in the face of true history and William L. Shirer’s history of the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
The fact is…that Hitler was born into a Catholic family…but he fell away from the Church rather early in the game and could hardly be considered even a nominal Catholic. In fact…he was clearly “anti-Catholic” long before he even wrote “Mein Kampf”. Here is several sources for some of that information:
bede.org.uk/hitler.htm
constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id2.html
americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=10539
Hitler’s “catholic-ness” was probably about as much as the average atheist…
Hitler and his lackeys were working at producing their own “church”…with all the bells and whistles.
If you look closely at sites that make the claims that Hitler was a Catholic, yada, yada…they are protestant sites with their very own special agendas. But they fail in the face of true history and William L. Shirer’s history of the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
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hunter2
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Oops, I was misled. The Concordat did not establish Catholicism as the only religion in Germany. But it seems to have been Intended as a shield for the church. The agreement lent Hitler international credibility, criminalized Catholic political activity, and demoralized bishops and priests who opposed Nazi rule.
The Reichskonkordat ensured the bishops’ loyalty to the state by an oath.This marriage of convenience between Hitler and the Church hierarchy was deeply confusing to Catholics who looked to their church for guidance. Put yourself in the position of a 1933 German Catholic as you read the text of the Concordat between Nazi Germany and the Vatican, the Reichskonkordat.
Code:
"The German Catholic Church has rescinded its ban on joining the Nazi Party. The Catholic Center party has dissolved itself. [And Articles 31 and 32 prevent any revival of this democratic Catholic party which had opposed the Nazis.] In the Reichskonkordat, the Vatican has promised that German Bishops and their subordinates will be obedient to and honor the Nazi state (Article 16). It has promised that German Catholic educators will teach children patriotic love for the Nazi state (Article 21). It has requested and received the Nazi dictatorship's promise to enforce internal Church decisions (Article 10). Cardinal Bertram of Breslau has called on Catholics to avoid all subversive or illegal (by Nazi definition) activities.[Article 16 contains this pledge for new bishops]:
‘In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it.’ "
Thanks to the Catholic church at the time, the Nazis gained prestige in the eyes of an increasingly suspicious world.
Cardinal Faulhaber sent a handwritten note to Hitler, stating:
“What the old parliaments and parties did not accomplish in 60 years, your statesmanlike foresight has achieved in six months. For Germany’s prestige in East and West . . . this handshake with the papacy, the greatest moral power in the history of the world, is a feat of immeasurable blessing.”
Germany’s Catholic Centre Party, backed by the Vatican, swiftly supported unrestricted powers for Hitler and the suspension of the Weimar Constitution. The editor of the Catholic journal Augsburger Postzeitung summarized the mood: “The positive attitude of the German Catholics to the new state is no longer impeded by religious scruples.” The same might be said of the Holy See, which in April received Nazi leaders Franz von Papen and Hermann Goring with full honors. Intended as a shield for the church, the agreement lent Hitler international credibility, criminalized Catholic political activity, and demoralized bishops and priests who opposed Nazi rule.
Pacelli collaborated in the withdrawal of Catholics from political and social activity. Hitler insisted that his signature on the concordat would depend on the Centre Party’s voting for the Enabling Act, the legislation that was to give him dictatorial powers. Next, Hitler insisted on the “voluntary” disbanding of the Centre Party, the last truly parliamentary force in Germany. Again, Pacelli was the prime mover in this tragic Catholic surrender. In the political vacuum created by its surrender, Catholics in the millions joined the Nazi Party, believing that it had the support of the Pope.
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estesbob
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You were misled becuase you cut n pasted from a anti-catholic web site and didnt check to see if it was correct. you do the same below-all cut n pasted verbatim from concordatwatch.eu/showkb.php?org_id=858&kb_header_id=752&kb_id=1212-another anit-catholic website.
Btw -the concordat did not forbid Catholics to particpate in politics-it forbade catholic clergy to particiapte in politics-the sam ruleis in effect today
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hunter2
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Another anti-Catholic…good grief…
I am not anti-Catholic. I am not anti-Scientologist either. The catholic church appeased Hitler. Bishops were required by the pope to swear an oath of loyalty to the Reich.
The signing of the concordat demoralized German Catholics, who had stood with their bishops in opposing National Socialism from the early 1920’s until March 28, 1933. On that date the bishops, relying on Hitler’s solemn pledge to make “the two churches [Catholic and Protestant] the cornerstone of our work of national renewal,” rescinded their bans against membership in the Nazi Party. Pius XI and Pacelli may have operated in the best interests of the church as an institution, but they implicitly diminished the church as an advocate of human rights and justice. The metaphor of the church as a medieval castle or a Gothic cathedral so dominated Catholic thought that it lessened the role of the church as a proponent of universal human values.
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dmelosi
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You say that you are not anti-Catholic, yet you copy and paste from 2 of the worst anti-Catholic sites.
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