HIV/AIDS and Contraception

[AveSantaMaria]

Dear friends, I humbly and prayerfully ask you this question regarding the Church’s teachings on sexual morality and the prevention/transmission of HIV/AIDS. In poor developing countries in Africa and Latin America where as much as 33% of the population suffers from HIV/AIDS (i.e. Botswana), how can the Church lovingly preach no contraception? Maybe the risk of HIV/AIDS is so high that it would be wiser for all men to wear condoms, especially when they are too poor to get tested for HIV/AIDS or use drugs to be treated even if they could get tested.

Thank you dearly for your time, consideration (and hopefully serious thought) in reading this message!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

 

[Trishie]

I hear what your’e saying. It’s not for me to answer your question, but I’ll join you in prayer

Come Holy Spirit, and fill the hearts and minds of the Church.

Father, in the name of Jesus please help our African and South American brothers and sisters who are affected or in danger of being affected by AIDS and STDs of any kind. Please also help all those in any other countries of the world who are in similar danger. Please let Christian chastity be protected and spread, and please protect married couples who face danger from their partners.

I will keep all in my prayers and Masses

 

[Danuska]

1. Condoms are not 100% safe - not so long ago I watched a programme about AIDS - and one woman was telling of her life - she was British, she contracted HIV but got married, she and her husband used condoms, but she still got pregnant. They had a lovely child who got sick at the age of two - but she had no regrets even though after the death of that child her husband left her as he was not able to deal with the loss - she still said that it was that little child who taught her about death more than anything else, and that she was no longer afraid of death herself. I think she underwent some kind of conversion.Anyway, she is just an example that condoms do not guarantee that you will be safe from HIV
2. While I see your point if you are talking about marriages when one of the spouses contracted HIV - I do not see how this would help others - except to encourage them to be more promiscuous. Well the companies producing condoms would get richer, but wouldn’t it be better to spend that money on education and treatment of those with AIDS/HIV instead of buying condoms?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Dear friends, I humbly and prayerfully ask you this question regarding the Church’s teachings on sexual morality and the prevention/transmission of HIV/AIDS. In poor developing countries in Africa and Latin America where as much as 33% of the population suffers from HIV/AIDS (i.e. Botswana), how can the Church lovingly preach no contraception? Maybe the risk of HIV/AIDS is so high that it would be wiser for all men to wear condoms, especially when they are too poor to get tested for HIV/AIDS or use drugs to be treated even if they could get tested.

Thank you dearly for your time, consideration (and hopefully serious thought) in reading this message!

How are they contracting the “HIV/AIDS” ?

If all men wear condoms would this not be the last generation there?

Similarly if all practice celibacy this is their last generation. If monogamy is practiced the issue is reduced to procreation within the marriage. It would seem the Church does teach them well?

 

[manualman]

If the church sought to evangelize a culture where wife beating was almost universal, would it be a good idea for the church to train the men how to beat women in such a way as to cause great pain, but not permanent injury? Surely nobody would think that a good idea.

However entrenched, intrinsicly harmful behavior must be opposed, not accomodated. The issue that must be addressed is the promiscuity. However many condoms you throw at that problem, the situation will not get significantly better.

It’s a lot harder to get a woman pregnant than it is to give her HIV. Preganancy can only happen when she is fertile, HIV infection can happen anytime. Yet condoms are less than 90% effective at preventing pregnancy. The HIV protection rate HAS to be lower. Claiing that condoms are the solution just gives a false sense of security and will end up perpetuating the problem.

 

[Dale_M]

It’s a lot harder to get a woman pregnant than it is to give her HIV. Preganancy can only happen when she is fertile, HIV infection can happen anytime. Yet condoms are less than 90% effective at preventing pregnancy. The HIV protection rate HAS to be lower.

I think it is hard to generalize. A lot would depend upon the viral load of the infected partner, which can be undetectable with successful HIV drug therapy.

This study is small (62 couples), but it seems pregnancy is much more likely than getting infected with HIV if viral load is undetectable.

Overall, 76 natural pregnancies occurred, and 68 children were born. There were 9 fetal deaths, 1 twin pregnancy, 6 couples with 2 consecutive babies, and 4 couples with 3 consecutive newborns. There were no cases of HIV seroconversion in uninfected sexual partners.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17003695

 

[manualman]

Dale is technically correct if you assume HIV drug treatment. But the OP is referring to third world nations. I’m not aware that the expensive HIV cocktails are widely available there. Thus the study he cites is not valid for this discussion

 

[Dale_M]

Dale is technically correct if you assume HIV drug treatment. But the OP is referring to third world nations. I’m not aware that the expensive HIV cocktails are widely available there. Thus the study he cites is not valid for this discussion

Ah, but we can discuss what should be done. I think instead of promoting condoms, we should be promoting the distribution of anti-retroviral drugs for the treatment of HIV.

Perhaps the biggest good of the Bush presidency was his massive increase in HIV funding for Africa. A million people are likely alive today because of US funding for these drugs. This program should be continued and expanded.

 

[iamme]

1. Condoms are not 100% safe - not so long ago I watched a programme about AIDS - and one woman was telling of her life - she was British, she contracted HIV but got married, she and her husband used condoms, but she still got pregnant. They had a lovely child who got sick at the age of two - but she had no regrets even though after the death of that child her husband left her as he was not able to deal with the loss - she still said that it was that little child who taught her about death more than anything else, and that she was no longer afraid of death herself. I think she underwent some kind of conversion.Anyway, she is just an example that condoms do not guarantee that you will be safe from HIV
2. While I see your point if you are talking about marriages when one of the spouses contracted HIV - I do not see how this would help others - except to encourage them to be more promiscuous. Well the companies producing condoms would get richer, but wouldn’t it be better to spend that money on education and treatment of those with AIDS/HIV instead of buying condoms?

Myths About Condoms

There continues to be misinformation and misunderstanding about condom effectiveness. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) provides the following updated information to address some common myths about condoms. This information is based on findings from recent epidemiologic, laboratory, and clinical studies.
Myth #1: Condoms don’t work

Some persons have expressed concern about studies that report failure rates among couples using condoms for pregnancy prevention. Analysis of these studies indicates that the large range of efficacy rates is related to incorrect or i inconsistent use. The fact is: latex condoms are highly effective for pregnancy prevention, but only when they are used properly. Research indicates that only 30 to 60 percent of men who claim to use condoms for contraception actually use them for every act of intercourse. Further, even people who use condoms every time may not use them correctly. Incorrect use contributes to the possibility that the condom could leak from the base or break.
Myth #2: HIV can pass through condoms

A commonly held misperception is that latex condoms contain “holes” that allow passage of HIV. Although this may be true for natural membrane condoms, laboratory studies show that intact latex condoms provide a continuous barrier to microorganisms, including HIV, as well as sperm.
Myth #3: Condoms frequently break

Another area of concern expressed by some is about the quality of latex condoms. Condoms are classified as medical devices and are regulated by the FDA. Every latex condom manufactured in the United States is tested for defects before it is packaged. During the manufacturing process, condoms are double-dipped in latex and undergo stringent quality control procedures. Several studies clearly show that condom breakage rates in this country are less than 2 percent. Most of the breakage is due to incorrect usage rather than poor condom quality. Using oil-based lubricants can weaken latex, causing the condom to break. In addition, condoms can be weakened by exposure to heat or sunlight or by age, or they can be torn by teeth or fingernails.

hhs.gov/news/press/2001pres/20010720.html

 

[manualman]

iamme,

Sorry but those myth busters actually prove the ‘myths’ to be true!

Sure, the theoretical effectiveness of a condom may be superb. But when actually used by imperfect humans in the throes of passion mistakes are made and people get careless. In other words, they don’t work as well in the real world as advertised, for pregnancy prevention OR HIV prevention. They essentially admit that right in the explanations.

 

[iamme]

iamme,

Sorry but those myth busters actually prove the ‘myths’ to be true!

Sure, the theoretical effectiveness of a condom may be superb. But when actually used by imperfect humans in the throes of passion mistakes are made and people get careless. In other words, they don’t work as well in the real world as advertised, for pregnancy prevention OR HIV prevention. They essentially admit that right in the explanations.

but its not 90% its virtually 100%. but hey, why give these uneducated, poor people a chance at saving them from disease or spreading it by giving them condoms, when theres a fraction of a chance it might not work?

after all, abstinence is 100% effective…

…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Ceil-1]

If I knew I had HIV, or even a chance I had it, I would abstain from intercourse because I could not live with myself knowing I infected someone knowingly like that.

Apparently, these men do not feel the same way.

I heard a bishop from that continent say a campaign to push having men “graze in their own pastures” was reducing HIV by huge numbers.

If a young man marries a woman and stays with just her for life, then the chance of obtaining HIV is zero. (Assuming both have not contracted it in other ways, like, congenitally).

There is no other way to guarantee, and protect the woman, who, I believe, as a nurse who has dealt with this, is ALWAYS the victim in these cases.

 

[Shannon9791]

I used to work with individuals with HIV/AIDS and I can tell you that in most cases of infected people who are married and use condoms, about 80% of the uninfected partners eventually contracted the disease. It doesn’t take that much of a viral load to pass the disease, and in some cases (know that I’m only talking about my experience here in the United States) the infected partner didn’t know they were infected to begin with. It’s hard though, to tell married people not to have sex, and while I will claim ignorance about the entire situation in Africa, I would have to guess that it’s not just because of promiscuity. What I do know is that the anti-retroviral treatments are VERY expensive, and I don’t really know how long the US will be able to keep on shipping the meds over there. One former client of mine had very good insurance and he still paid close to $1000 a month for his meds. It is a tragic situation, and one that will not be solved by flying over the people and dropping condoms. Condoms tend to give people a false sense of security, because they aren’t 100% effective.

I would like to see the trends of other STI’s in the extremely infected areas, because other diseases only weaken the immune system allowing HIV to be contracted much easier. I know their living conditions aren’t the most sanitary, so I would assume that Heapatitis probably runs rampant, as well as other easily passed diseases.

 

[Dale_M]

There is no other way to guarantee, and protect the woman, who, I believe, as a nurse who has dealt with this, is ALWAYS the victim in these cases.

“Always” is a stronger word than is justified. I know from reading postings in an AIDS online forum that women do cheat on men, and have passed the infection on to their husbands. I have read such confessions from long time members of this forum.

But I agree that “zero grazing” policies are the most effective at preventing transmission. This is what worked in Uganda before the advent of the Western backed policy of ABC (Abstinence, Be Faithful, Condomize).

 

[Alindawyl]

but its not 90% its virtually 100%. but hey, why give these uneducated, poor people a chance at saving them from disease or spreading it by giving them condoms, when theres a fraction of a chance it might not work?

after all, abstinence is 100% effective…

…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/bloodyhell1982/1203102582_A1K8HoiSkN5RLcF.jpg

Mary consented to give birth to Jesus when asked by God. Although she abstained from the ACT of sex, she did not abstain from the CONSEQUENCES of sex.

The consequences of engaging in sex with no restrictions are what those who use birth control are seeking to avoid.

So your attempt at humor fails

 

[iamme]

Mary consented to give birth to Jesus when asked by God. Although she abstained from the ACT of sex, she did not abstain from the CONSEQUENCES of sex.

The consequences of engaging in sex with no restrictions are what those who use birth control are seeking to avoid.

So your attempt at humor fails

actually, my attempt at humor was HILARIOUS!

 

[manualman]

but its not 90% its virtually 100%. but hey, why give these uneducated, poor people a chance at saving them from disease or spreading it by giving them condoms, when theres a fraction of a chance it might not work?

after all, abstinence is 100% effective…

For the sake of argument, let’s say the condom is 99.8% effective at preventing HIV transmission. I don’t believe for a second it is really that high in pracice, but let’s see what happens.

Take a couple with an infected man and say they have intercourse on average once a week. Luckily I have my handy old college statistics textbook here so lets look at the long term outlook for our couple:
After 1 year of this, she has about a 10% chance of having been infected.
After 6 years, she has about a 50/50 chance.

99.8% protection sounds good until you realize that even a low probability event become likely when you give it enough chances.

So-called “safe sex” is a dangerous lie.

 

[iamme]

For the sake of argument, let’s say the condom is 99.8% effective at preventing HIV transmission. I don’t believe for a second it is really that high in pracice, but let’s see what happens.

Take a couple with an infected man and say they have intercourse on average once a week. Luckily I have my handy old college statistics textbook here so lets look at the long term outlook for our couple:
After 1 year of this, she has about a 10% chance of having been infected.
After 6 years, she has about a 50/50 chance.

99.8% protection sounds good until you realize that even a low probability event become likely when you give it enough chances.

So-called “safe sex” is a dangerous lie.

1. your statistics are flawed because you failed to account for at least four variables that i can see off hand.
2. abstinence, while of course is the best way to be protected, is simply unrealistic in todays world, and even moreso in the third world, where its considered a right of passage, or property, and a commodity… to tell people to stop having sex today has about the same effect as telling them to stop breathing, and its been shown time and time again that where abstinence is taught exclusively, that the disease and unwanted pregnancy rate is higher…

but no, lets just toss condoms out, because theyre not 100% totally absolutely effective, and because they go against your religious beliefs, even tho those in africa dont share those beliefs.

 

[manualman]

1. your statistics are flawed because you failed to account for at least four variables that i can see off hand.
2. abstinence, while of course is the best way to be protected, is simply unrealistic in todays world, and even moreso in the third world, where its considered a right of passage, or property, and a commodity… to tell people to stop having sex today has about the same effect as telling them to stop breathing, and its been shown time and time again that where abstinence is taught exclusively, that the disease and unwanted pregnancy rate is higher…

but no, lets just toss condoms out, because theyre not 100% totally absolutely effective, and because they go against your religious beliefs, even tho those in africa dont share those beliefs.

1. You can see them “offhand” but can’t be bothered to list them?
2. LOL, we’ve had less than 60 years of modern ‘sexual enlightenment’ and except for the miracle of HIV drug treatment we’re facing an epidemic that has the potential to wipe out millions and you have the gall to suggest that abstinance before marriage is the failed policy?? I humbly suggest that you learn a little history and see just how many cultures have historically embraced and found success with monogomous marriage? The new and failed idea is post 60’s sex-with-no-strings and its myriad doomed attempts to avoid the inevitable consequences.
   What a world we’ve got these days.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

1. abstinence, while of course is the best way to be protected, is simply unrealistic in todays world, and even moreso in the third world, where its considered a right of passage, or property, and a commodity… to tell people to stop having sex today has about the same effect as telling them to stop breathing, and its been shown time and time again that where abstinence is taught exclusively, that the disease and unwanted pregnancy rate is higher…

This is an interesting discussion that I am watching avidly. However, most African people have quite strict sexually moral beliefs and are either Muslim or Christian. In fact, abortion is outlawed in many countries. AIDS is not as prevalent all over Africa as it is in southern Africa, where I mentioned infection rates are about 33%. Although there is great promiscuity there, the reason for these high rates may be more related to the advent of the hut tax in Botswana during colonliasm which forced about 50% of the Botswana men to travel to South Africa in order to have money to pray for it. In the diamond and mineral mines, many of them may have contacted HIV/AIDS from prostitutes. It really may be the poverty of the people that encourages or forces many women to go into prostitution or to sleep with men for money that contributes to the spread of HIV/AIDS. That’s just a theory from a person who knows less than she should though.

In fact, I would venture to say that sexual morality and abstinence is valued much more highly in Africa than in the West. However, it may end up that only wealthier/richer/upper-class women abide by these norms while poorer women are either easily taken advantage of or have less motivation to conform to these norms.

Thank you all for your time and consideration in sharing your beliefs and perspectives. I hope to continue reading and learning.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and those who do not!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *