HIV/AIDS and Contraception

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manualman said:
  1. You can see them “offhand” but can’t be bothered to list them? :rolleyes:
  2. LOL, we’ve had less than 60 years of modern ‘sexual enlightenment’ and except for the miracle of HIV drug treatment we’re facing an epidemic that has the potential to wipe out millions and you have the gall to suggest that abstinance before marriage is the failed policy?? I humbly suggest that you learn a little history and see just how many cultures have historically embraced and found success with monogomous marriage? The new and failed idea is post 60’s sex-with-no-strings and its myriad doomed attempts to avoid the inevitable consequences.
    What a world we’ve got these days.
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  1. do they use the condom properly every time? is it a monogamous relationship? what sexual acts do they participate in? i could go on, but id rather give you a chance to be sanctimonious again!
  2. i have the gall that you should at least know how to spell abstinence before you preach it. i also said that abstinence only teaching is outdated. im right. you know what history has in common with today?
    youd probably have no idea what youre talking about then, too…
 
iamme said:
  1. do they use the condom properly every time? is it a monogamous relationship? what sexual acts do they participate in? i could go on, but id rather give you a chance to be sanctimonious again!
  2. i have the gall that you should at least know how to spell abstinence before you preach it. i also said that abstinence only teaching is outdated. im right. you know what history has in common with today?
    youd probably have no idea what youre talking about then, too…
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Well, instead of arguments, you have just said ‘I know, I am right’, ‘you don’t know what you are talking about’ and to make it even more bizarre you spelled in a way that it makes it really funny that you try to ridicule the other person by pointing out spelling mistakes. So are you here to debate or make personal remarks?

*what history has in common with today?
*
That is interesting question on the other hand…
 
I see your point on contraceptives. BTW did you know that Brazil has the following things:
  • The highest number of Roman Catholics of any country in the world and
  • The highest rate of HIV/AIDS outside Africa .:whackadoo:
I am catholic but I haven’t found a single passage in the bible which says against contraceptives. In the medical point of views, abstaining from sex is a form of a contraceptive. This implies that Priests and Nuns and many other people are using condoms 24/7.

I also believe that God would rather have one life HUMANELY prevented from living than have a few hundred people die in a very painful and uncomfortable way. (See “PHILADELPHIA” starring Tom Hanks to understand what I mean) :bighanky:
 
Jaggermeister said:
I see your point on contraceptives. BTW did you know that Brazil has the following things:
  • The highest number of Roman Catholics of any country in the world and
  • The highest rate of HIV/AIDS outside Africa .:whackadoo:
I am catholic but I haven’t found a single passage in the bible which says against contraceptives. In the medical point of views, abstaining from sex is a form of a contraceptive. This implies that Priests and Nuns and many other people are using condoms 24/7.

I also believe that God would rather have one life HUMANELY prevented from living than have a few hundred people die in a very painful and uncomfortable way. (See “PHILADELPHIA” starring Tom Hanks to understand what I mean) :bighanky:
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Those are good points, I did not know that Brazil had the highest rate of HIV/AIDS outside Africa. Do you think that somehow Catholic practice in certain countries encourages HIV/AIDS? Or why Brazil would have such a high HIV/AIDS rate and Poland would not? However, I suspect that Muslim countries also do not regularly practice contraception. Do they also have high HIV/AIDS rates or is it only the predominantly Roman Catholic countries that do not practice contraception that have high HIV/AIDS rates? Maybe I should look into that. 🙂

As for the thought on God - we have to remember God’s primary concern is whether or not we go to Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell and become perfected to complete union with Christ. I believe that he cares whether or not we die in a very painful and uncomfortable way, but given that his only beloved Son, Jesus Christ, did so as well, I think that he gives us the choice as to whether or not we want to choose into that and, to play advocate of the other side - only a minority of the people with HIV/AIDS - young women, children, and sex traffickers did not choose into the physical activity that led to their disease. I have not seen PHILADELPHIA starring Tom Hanks. Please might you let me know why I should perhaps go watch it in regards to this issue. :confused:

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and those who do not!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
iamme said:
  1. do they use the condom properly every time? is it a monogamous relationship? what sexual acts do they participate in? i could go on, but id rather give you a chance to be sanctimonious again!
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You realize that each of those factors only serve to increase the chance of transmission, right? The poster was giving a conservative estimate.
 
AveSantaMaria said:
Dear friends, I humbly and prayerfully ask you this question regarding the Church’s teachings on sexual morality and the prevention/transmission of HIV/AIDS. In poor developing countries in Africa and Latin America where as much as 33% of the population suffers from HIV/AIDS (i.e. Botswana), how can the Church lovingly preach no contraception? Maybe the risk of HIV/AIDS is so high that it would be wiser for all men to wear condoms, especially when they are too poor to get tested for HIV/AIDS or use drugs to be treated even if they could get tested. :confused:

Thank you dearly for your time, consideration (and hopefully serious thought) in reading this message!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
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Ave, it’s a real surprise to see you suggesting a change in this teaching.

Simply, the Church bears the responsibility to save the souls of mankind, not their bodies through an erroneous teaching. I hope you’ve reconsidered and dismissed your idea.
 
I hear your message. But with all respect when we spend our dollars on education in these poor countries is this the message you want spread? What we teach gets taught to their children and people around them.

Teach a man to use a condom and he enjoys sex for the day, teach him abstinance until marriage and he enjoys a lifetime.
 
catharina said:
Ave, it’s a real surprise to see you suggesting a change in this teaching.

Simply, the Church bears the responsibility to save the souls of mankind, not their bodies through an erroneous teaching. I hope you’ve reconsidered and dismissed your idea.
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Hey, thank you for your post. 🙂 I think that I may have worded my OP in a way that was unclear to some. I am not preaching a change in anything - I am trying to understand the issue more deeply and understand different viewpoints.

Maybe I need to do more reading to thoroughly understand why contraception is a mortal sin in order to stop asking questions like this and this is my sin - lack of understanding or commitment - and I thank you for your correction and notice. But perhaps I am also wondering - are there any success stories of our preaching abstinence in a country where the country enjoys large-scale freedom of HIV/AIDS. In this case, what is the difference between the success in that country and in Africa as a whole and Latin America. Can we preach the issue lovingly?

*Is it just economic prosperity that is the difference? It is more comprehensive and larger scale teaching of Natural Family Planning? Is it that celebrities, politicans, and religious leaders smoke more adamantly in those countries about the dangers of promiscuity or instituted harsher laws/prosecution against sex trafficking? Is it a more devout/special/different Catholic culture? * I wish I knew a solution to this issue and the answers!

I hope this issue will remain in all of our prayers.

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and those who do not!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
 
AveSantaMaria said:
Hey, thank you for your post. 🙂 I think that I may have worded my OP in a way that was unclear to some. I am not preaching a change in anything - I am trying to understand the issue more deeply and understand different viewpoints.

Maybe I need to do more reading to thoroughly understand why contraception is a mortal sin in order to stop asking questions like this and this is my sin - lack of understanding or commitment - and I thank you for your correction and notice. But perhaps I am also wondering - are there any success stories of our preaching abstinence in a country where the country enjoys large-scale freedom of HIV/AIDS. In this case, what is the difference between the success in that country and in Africa as a whole and Latin America. Can we preach the issue lovingly?
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“Be faithful in your love” is a loving message.

As for sparing others the suffering of AIDS, please remember that suffering comes to all. God’s will seems to be that we are to assist the suffering. Feed the hungry, visit the sick, bury the dead and so forth. Better we should work to eliminate hunger! To an extent, hunger and starvation around the world is a problem created and sustained by mankind; rarely is it an act of God. To withhold food and drink from others while we destroy surplus is complete insanity. Defeat hunger and the defeat of many diseases will take place too, IMO.
 
avemaria, a PS.

Contraception is mortally sinful because it places mankind’s desires above God’s will. Only God is the Author of life. When humanity steps in to inferfere with the process (possibility) of conception, humanity is taking over a role that belongs to God Alone.

I hope this aids your understanding of Catholic Teaching.
 
If you google World HIV Aid there are numberous articles showing some success with both condoms and abstenience.

Example:
thebody.com/content/world/art48279.html

Primary transmission and percentage with aids is is still injecting drug users, men who have sex with men, and sex workers.
 
AveSantaMaria said:
Those are good points, I did not know that Brazil had the highest rate of HIV/AIDS outside Africa. Do you think that somehow Catholic practice in certain countries encourages HIV/AIDS? Or why Brazil would have such a high HIV/AIDS rate and Poland would not? However, I suspect that Muslim countries also do not regularly practice contraception. Do they also have high HIV/AIDS rates or is it only the predominantly Roman Catholic countries that do not practice contraception that have high HIV/AIDS rates? Maybe I should look into that. 🙂

As for the thought on God - we have to remember God’s primary concern is whether or not we go to Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell and become perfected to complete union with Christ. I believe that he cares whether or not we die in a very painful and uncomfortable way, but given that his only beloved Son, Jesus Christ, did so as well, I think that he gives us the choice as to whether or not we want to choose into that and, to play advocate of the other side - only a minority of the people with HIV/AIDS - young women, children, and sex traffickers did not choose into the physical activity that led to their disease. I have not seen PHILADELPHIA starring Tom Hanks. Please might you let me know why I should perhaps go watch it in regards to this issue. :confused:

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee and those who do not!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
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I know that there are many countries in Africa which are dominantly Catholic and the AIDS rates are high. Uganda is one of them. Nevertheless, most countries which have high HIV/AIDS rates are poverty stricken/third world. Some of them being dominantly catholic and being third world is mainly coincidental. Brazil is fairly well off, so don’t ask me why the HIV/AIDS rate is so high.

Philadelphia is about a gay person dying of AIDS. It shows the stages of which the virus kills and how unpleasant it is. However the bible does say in Leviticus 18:22 that a man should not sleep with another. So only let Philadelphia show how bad it is to have AIDS.
 
LeroyCRHP said:
Primary transmission and percentage with aids is is still injecting drug users, men who have sex with men, and sex workers.
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of course, but if they practiced safe sex, or abstinence, or if a clean needle exchange policy were implemented everywhere, then those rates would also fall.

personally, i see it as the primary transmission and percentage of aids, is people…
 
Ceil-1 said:
If I knew I had HIV, or even a chance I had it, I would abstain from intercourse because I could not live with myself knowing I infected someone knowingly like that.

Apparently, these men do not feel the same way.

I heard a bishop from that continent say a campaign to push having men “graze in their own pastures” was reducing HIV by huge numbers.

If a young man marries a woman and stays with just her for life, then the chance of obtaining HIV is zero. (Assuming both have not contracted it in other ways, like, congenitally).

There is no other way to guarantee, and protect the woman, who, I believe, as a nurse who has dealt with this, is ALWAYS the victim in these cases.
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Regarding your staement about contracting AIDS if the couple are faithfull. to each other.
Not true if a partner contracts AIDS by a blood transfusion.
It happened in San Diego CA USA to a prominent businessman who I think ran Kolbys Swapp Meet.Totally innocent, and he died if my information is correct.
 
sealerdave said:
Regarding your staement about contracting AIDS if the couple are faithfull. to each other.
Not true if a partner contracts AIDS by a blood transfusion.
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Fair enough. So exactly how would contraception help in these rare cases?

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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