Holding and lifting hands during Our Father

[neophyte]

This has always seemed strange to me.
Don’t the rubrics specifically say that the laity is not to perform the actions given to the Priest? And isn’t assuming the orans posture one of those actions?

The first time I ever encountered hand-holding during the Our Father was when I was still a Protestant and had the misfortune of attending a service at the obviously heretical Church of Today. Christ-Consciousness, energy-channeling, all of that nonsense, and particularly the idea that there’s no fundamental distinction between us and God.

Our unity is in and through Christ, He is its source, and a liturgical posture that signifies otherwise is not something I’ll participate in. There are many actions that aren’t expressly forbidden, but that doesn’t mean that they are proper to do.

 

[rondirect]

Are these not serious issues because the Mass is still valid?

They are…but the examples you put forth are extreme.

Agree with Hereiam here. To put holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer in the category of clowns near the altar is quite far-fetched.

This subject comes up almost every few months. From my vantage point at 3 Masses a weekend, I see most families and friends holding hands, and some with hands in prayer or folded. If you do not want to hold hands, hold them in prayer fashion or folded; no one is going to make you hold their hand if you refuse or look straight ahead, or eyes closed, head bowed down a bit.

This subject is much to do about nothing. Do what makes you feel comfortable.

It’s a distraction, and it’s awkward as people tend to scratch and pick their noses–or return from the restroom. Then–after holding hands with someone recovering from a cold or flu–one receives in the paw. It’s a miracle more folks don’t become ill.

It’s a distraction only if you let it be a distraction. All the things you say people do, do! Do you also refuse to shake another’s hand when being introduced? There is probably more reason to get sick by drinking from the common communion cup, IMO.

 

[giuseppe96]

Salmon is delicious pan seared in teriyaki and rice wine (great Japanese recipe I discovered when tuna casserole on Fridays got boring). Otherwise, cod makes a good frying fish as well as catfish.

 

[otjm]

Yes, the orans position is one which the priest does.

He also at times puts his hands together in a prayer position.

 

[BartholomewB]

I would like a solid answer as to whether this act during mass is or is not to be done by the laity.

It’s been such a long time since we last had a thread on this question, I was beginning to hope the Posture Police might have lost interest in this particular quarrel.

December 2017, 154 posts:

Oran's Posture - Priest Only!? Liturgy and Sacraments

I read about this when it came out. I stopped doing it. Wife was furious with me about me until a State Senator ( parishioner at our church ) posted on facebook to a recently ordained Priest ( also from our Parish ). A lot of people have read this article and no longer do this gesture at our Parish. Do they do it at your Parish? https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/hand-gestures-at-mass

April-May this year, 195 posts:

What Is the Correct Posture During the Our Father? Liturgy and Sacraments

As for me, i have been to churches where people mostly pray extending hands and arms stretched posture. If that is the case, i personally choose to do the hands together praying posture, that’s just how i pray. However, i have been to churches where people hold hands in pews while praying the Our Father. If that’s the case and somebody wants to grab my hand, sure why not…? If nobody is making an attempt for my hand, i’ll just pray as i always do

This one ran in March of this year, 79 posts:

Hand position of parishioners during the Our Father Liturgy and Sacraments

This was the note in our bulletin this weekend and I think it’s GREAT! A Note From Father --------. My dear parishioners, I want to address the issue of the proper position of the hands during the Our Father at Mass. As you can see, the priest has his hands extended, as the missal instructs him to do. The question is: what is the proper position of the hands for the parishioners? After researching and asking a liturgical expert, I have learned that the proper position for everyone excep…

 

[Reverent_Howler]

Some medics wrote in HPR that they found the practice of the Common Cup to be ill-advised. That the turn-and-vigorous-rub did nothing about what may lie beyond the rim. Altar wine is but 3% alcohol by volume. We use at least 70% as an anti-bacteriological in my labwork.

 

[babochka]

Altar wine is between 5% and 20%.

 

[Gabika50]

Excellent! SO it is written, so let it be done!!! And no, I am not a hugger and I bow like the japanese during the sign of peace- it is more hygenic!

 

[Shasta-Rose]

Like Reverent_Howler, I give a lot of thought to the germs when using the common cup. But I do it if it isn’t cold and flu season. Jesus said “eat–drink,” so I eat and drink, but just when it seems like a “healthy” season and I don’t see evidence of cold germs. And today I let out a good sneeze during Mass (it came as a surprise!), so I didn’t go for the precious blood. I was the person in the room that people would have been leery of following to the cup.

As to the holding up of hands and the hand holding, I just don’t like it, and I don’t do it. A lot of us older ones don’t do it. Folding one’s hands to pray is never questioned and always proper.

 

[AustinGM]

I personally usually try to avoid holding hands except for with the faithful that I am the most closest with but then this practice itself seems unwelcome to guests. Therefore, I usually go for the orans posture as I find it to be a fuller expression of prayer and almost every person can make the orans posture except for those that have some bodily hinderances. The orans posture is one of the most ancient expressions of prayer. Folded hands comes down to us from the Middle Ages when this posture was more widely understood to be a symbol of homage in feudalism. This posture still happens in ordinations when the ordaining bishop surrounds the folded hands of the ordinands. I do not understand why people have a problem with this position as it would not have been exclusive to just the priests in the ancient church. One can also often see people using the orans posture in country churches in some countries during the Lord‘s Prayer. I have personally seen this in Italy. The problem surrounding this posture is its lack of catechesis and understanding even from the ,liturgical experts‘‘. Therein lies another problem as many do not properly make the orans posture even some priests. I have noticed that some of the faithful have there arms and hands everywhere. The orans posture does not have an exclusive attachment to the Charismatic Movement within the Church as some would lead one to believe as evidenced by the example above of some people naturally making this position uniform and proper in some places. I am aware that some bishops have banned holding hands which can bed understandable but the restricting of the orans posture exclusively to presiders is something that I find odd as I am aware that some bishops have banned this position of prayer by the faithful in their diocese during liturgical worship.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

It’s not required and no one can seem to nail down it’s origins. The panelists on EWTN’s Live Wire found the ‘tradition’ to be “corny”. This forumite knows of instances where it has been abused, by stalkers, for example. An opportunity to flirt. Some have taken to forming “magic circles” in the pews–and choir section. Sometimes turning one’s back to the altar in doing so. It’s a distraction, and it’s awkward as people tend to scratch and pick their noses–or return from the restroom. Then–after holding hands with someone recovering from a cold or flu–one receives in the paw. It’s a miracle more folks don’t become ill.

I figure if people attend OF then they must want to be made ill with every cold / cough / flu that’s going around. Otherwise they would attend EF or they would make a point not to shake hands, or hold hands, or receive in the hand…

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Whoo whoa whoa there - -
I think there is something missing here. There is some quote that people usually throw in that some gestures are reserved for priests. I believe the orans posture is one of them…

• Found it!
  

  “In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant. It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity” (ICP Practical Provisions 6 §2).

The Faithful Are NOT To Use the Orans Posture During the Our Father

A discussion that is common in Catholic parishes between the more orthodox members of the parish and the more “progressive” members is whether or not the faithful should use the Orans Posture during the Our Father.

www.catholic365.com

“Common bodily posture” (as you can see in the examples you quote) refers to sitting / standing / kneeling, not holding hands.

 

[AustinGM]

Why are the faifthful allowed to assume this posture at other points during the Mass but not during the Lord‘s Prayer? What about during the liturgy of the hours and the rest of Mass? The faithful are obviously not trying to lead the Lord’s Prayer. Therefore, I find the reasoning behind this odd but perhaps there are other reasons that we have not been told about.

 

[brian_custer]

i am not on board with lifting & holding hands during Mass

at the Marian shrine i sometimes go to; the chaplain specifically banned it

at my local parish ; the pastor says nothing about it

lifting, holding, kissing, hugging , touching are not part of the rubrics of the Mass for the laity

but whatever; just show up on Sunday and do what you want to do

my pastor & 99.9% of other pastors will say nothing against it

maybe we can do jumping jacks or tumblesaults

 

[JohnLilburne]

I am not aware of any rubrics in the liturgical books of the Roman Rite that direct a lay minister to pray with extended hands with palms facing upwards. I have read that it is permitted in Italy, but I am not aware of any other countries where this is permitted.

I am aware of rubrics that direct a lay minister to have extended hands over catechumens being prayed for. This is for minor exorcisms and blessings of catechumens by a catechist.

From the RCIA book (approved for Australia 1986) it has:
“91 The presiding celebrant for the minor exorcisms is a priest, a deacon, or a qualified catechist appointed by the bishop for this ministry.” The rubric is:
“94 As the catechumens bow or kneel, the celebrant, with hands outstretched over them, says one of the following prayers.”

Deacons are often instructed have extended hands over things they are blessing in the Book of Blessings. But I do not think they are ever instructed by the liturgical books to have extended hands with palms facing upwards.

So in general if a lay person or deacon does this, my response is that Ceremonial of Bishops 104 is not being followed:
“Customarily in the Church a bishop or presbyter addresses prayers to God while standing and with hands slightly raised and outstretched.”

If an altar server has hand extended during the Our Father he is not following this part of the Ceremonial of Bishops: “107 … Similarly, concelebrants and ministers keep their hands joined when walking from place to place or when standing, unless they are holding something.”

I made a video about this which is at

.

 

[brian_custer]

i don’t know how this “issue” could’ve been explained any better

nice job, shipmate

i strongly encourage every CAF poster to view the link John posted

 

[AustinGM]

I honestly think that there are bigger liturgical abuses to deal with like having people come into the sanctuary and holding hands during the Eucharistic prayer, church architecture, & cetera than telling me how I or anyone else should be praying. What about the people who do not even sit, kneel, bow, or stand at the “proper” points during Mass and other liturgical celebrations. The fact that you all are trying to take this ancient posture away from the faithful is a negative act in my opinion and opposing to tradition.

 

[AustinGM]

This argumentation that certain postures are only reserved to the priest are something that I find ridiculous. Just because the priest genuflects after the consecration mean that we cannot bow or strike our breasts as many do in acts of adoration? Many priests do not even make some of the proper postures in the Mass which is another topic.

 

[Reverent_Howler]

Growing up before Dixie Cups were available, my siblings and I shared a common cup for rinsing after brushing our teeth each morning before going to school. It was made of polypropylene with glitter. When one of us got a cold or the flu–the rest followed.

As a former licensed pest control operator, I learned at a symposium that smokers in the profession were more likely to become ill. That was attributed to the near-constant hand-to-mouth activity.