Holding Hands during Our Father

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I heard (but can’t confirm) that the US Bishops put out a letter of some sort discussing the issue of the congregation holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer. I was told it was not generally in favor of it.
Google came up with a number of different discussions on this, but nothing from the USCCB. Does anyone have a link to this letter?
 
The USCCB’s published position is that “there is no prescribed position for the hands during the Our Father.”

Peace,
 
I had heard from Fr. Corapi at a conference in Kansas City that the proper position is to have your hands together in prayer. I have also heard that Archbishop Naumann of KCK has requested the faithful to have their hands together in prayer during the Our Father as well but I have not seen the actual request.
 
From the USCCB site, here usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/orans.shtml

Many Catholics are in the habit of holding their hands in the “Orans” posture during the Lord’s prayer along with the celebrant. Some do this on their own as a private devotional posture while some congregations make it a general practice for their communities.

Is this practice permissible under the current rubrics, either as a private practice not something adopted by a particular parish as a communal gesture?

No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.

I know that some bishops are in favor and others opposed, and at least one that I have heard of has specified use of the Orans, but I’ve not seen any other document. Since the USCCB is the body charged with determining the norms for the US, it would seem that this would be the answer, even if others might prefer some specific position.

It would seem difficult to mandate hand positions though since there are considerations such as holding children, or perhaps reading along from the missal, that would preclude any other specific position and you would then have a constant situation of people being in “abuse”.

Certainly though, nobody should be imposing on anybody else to hold their hand.
 
Coincidently enough, just after I posted this, I went to the Cathedral in Sacramento for the very first time. I got there just as Mass started, so I stayed. The celebrant, during the homily, said that he had received a note from someone asking that they not mandate holding the hands together, and that it was upsetting the congregation. He said that he showed the note to Bishop Wiegand, and the Bishop said to “keep it up” (or words to that effect). The celebrant said that the Orans position during the Lord’s Prayer was a carryover from the Pentecostals and Charismatics, and that it was reserved for the presider, which would be the priest/celebrant. He again asked the congregation to hold their hands together in prayer.
He did not discuss the issue of holding hands; only the hands together vs. the Orans.
Well, when the Our Father was prayed, a bunch of people throughout the cathedral used the Orans position. I was somewhat shocked. At the end of Mass, Father addressed it. You could tell he was disappointed and unhappy. He reiterated what he had said earlier – in no uncertain terms – and asked people to please try to keep their hands together in prayer, as they should.
I don’t know if this is just his and the Bishop’s opinion; if there has been further guidance from USCCB; or something else. But he was adamant that this position was reserved for the presider of the Mass.
In any case, I found it more than a coincidence that this happened to be a major topic of discussion at my first visit to the cathedral.
 
Well, when the Our Father was prayed, a bunch of people throughout the cathedral used the Orans position.
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Unbelievable. Direct defiance.😦
 
JU2 said:
The celebrant, during the homily, said that he had received a note from someone asking that they not mandate holding the hands together, and that it was upsetting the congregation.
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That is absolutely right that there should be no mandate from anybody to assume any specific position. It is a matter of personal devotion how we hold our hands and if anything the priest should simply be reminding everybody to not impose their personal devotional style on anyone else. I know at least a couple of the bishops have written letters encouraging that exact thing since there is no “right or wrong” answer as long as it is a prayerful position.
 
MrS said:
canonlaw.info/liturgysacraments_orans.htm

Please read this article… perhaps it will clear up some misconceptions about the Orans, and who uses that posture.

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I’ve made the point before that the article makes that the confusion seems to come from the fact that the priest shouldn’t be using the Orans during the Our Father either, since he is not “presiding” at that point, but praying with the people.
From all of this, it seems that the rubric calling for the priest to assume the orans position during the Our Father, in which prayer he joins the people instead of offering it on their behalf, is at least anomalous, and possibly inconsistent with the presidential symbolism suggested today by the orans position elsewhere in the Mass.
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And as the article notes, whether it is reserved or not is being debated. I personally have no strong opinions about it, though I tend to agree with the argument that it can’t really be reserved since at least one area in Italy has been specifically given permission to make it the mandated position and the Church would not likely do such a thing, causing greater confusion, if they considered the posture to be “reserved”. I’ll just wait to see how that one shakes out.

Peace,
 
JU2 said:
Coincidently enough, just after I posted this, I went to the Cathedral in Sacramento for the very first time. I got there just as Mass started, so I stayed. The celebrant, during the homily, said that he had received a note from someone asking that they not mandate holding the hands together, and that it was upsetting the congregation. He said that he showed the note to Bishop Wiegand, and the Bishop said to “keep it up” (or words to that effect). The celebrant said that the Orans position during the Lord’s Prayer was a carryover from the Pentecostals and Charismatics, and that it was reserved for the presider, which would be the priest/celebrant. He again asked the congregation to hold their hands together in prayer.
He did not discuss the issue of holding hands; only the hands together vs. the Orans.
Well, when the Our Father was prayed, a bunch of people throughout the cathedral used the Orans position. I was somewhat shocked. At the end of Mass, Father addressed it. You could tell he was disappointed and unhappy. He reiterated what he had said earlier – in no uncertain terms – and asked people to please try to keep their hands together in prayer, as they should.
I don’t know if this is just his and the Bishop’s opinion; if there has been further guidance from USCCB; or something else. But he was adamant that this position was reserved for the presider of the Mass.
In any case, I found it more than a coincidence that this happened to be a major topic of discussion at my first visit to the cathedral.
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I just attended Mass at Holy Spirit Parish in Sacramento. I noticed a man next to me raise his hands as the Our Father started and then put them down. I didn’t really notice anyone else doing Orans. In my parish here in Wisconsin almost everybody now does the Orans. I can’t say anyone has spoken one way or the other about it, although I think it may have started from the Friday morning children’s Mass at the school. I am so busy holding the back of the pew to stay upright that I don’t bother.
 
The Mass is of course sometimes the only thing “catholic” that many people are exposed to each week. They may not read the bible. They may not read the saints or popes. They may not volunteer at a Catholic charity. But they may go to Mass.

And what does it say about our bishops that they could allow this confusion to go on for years (decades?)? People go to mass and do not know what is right or wrong.

Doesn’t it make sense that they should either say 1) keep your hands folded, 2) hold hands, 3) use orans, or 4) do what you want. But instead we get a simple statement saying that no posture is prescribed. And confusion still reigns.

Unbelievable!
 
SOME Bishops have tried to set a clear direction on this matter …
*" … Regarding The Lord’s Prayer, the General Instruction of the Roman Missal simply states that the celebrant invites the faithful to join in the prayer “and all the faithful say it with him.” There is no mention of holding hands during the prayer. *(Thus, these practices should not be imposed upon the faithful.) (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, No. 81). Also, it is the priest whose hands are extended during the Our Father; the faithful are not instructed to extend their hands. (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, No. 152) …" – His Excellency, The Most Reverend Salvatore R. Matano, Ninth Bishop of Burlington, Vermont.
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… Source.​
 
Sir_Knight said:
SOME Bishops have tried to set a clear direction on this matter …
" … Regarding The Lord’s Prayer, the General Instruction of the Roman Missal simply states that the celebrant invites the faithful to join in the prayer “and all the faithful say it with him.” There is no mention of holding hands during the prayer. (Thus, these practices should not be imposed upon the faithful.) (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, No. 81). Also, it is the priest whose hands are extended during the Our Father; the faithful are not instructed to extend their hands. (General Instruction of the Roman Missal, No. 152) …" – His Excellency, The Most Reverend Salvatore R. Matano, Ninth Bishop of Burlington, Vermont.
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While he may indeed be trying to set a direction, it would seem that the reasoning behind the direction doesn’t stand up.

First as quoted in another post below, the logic behind the priest extending his hands is faulty since this is a position of presiding and praying for the people and is not used in other places in the Mass where the priest prays with the people. I tend to agree with the writer of the article that this has caused confusion by its inconsistency.

And while he is correct that holding hands should not be “imposed” on the laity, that is not any indication that it should not be allowed to the laity, which is a totally different matter. Further, the argument that there is no mention of holding hands doesn’t wash at all since there is no mention of folding hands either–or of clasping them or putting them in your pockets or on the pew in front of you, or any other position at all. Nor, from my research, has any such requirement ever existed in the Roman Missal.

I understand that many people just don’t like it, for a multitude of good or personal reasons. And that is a valid reason why it should not be imposed. But it is not a good reason for those people who don’t like it to then “make the liturgy their own personal property”–as they so often accuse those holding hands of–by attempting to deny them the same right to a posture that they find meaningful as the communal expression of the prayer to Our Father.
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stjosephtomasi said:
And what does it say about our bishops that they could allow this confusion to go on for years (decades?)? People go to mass and do not know what is right or wrong.

Doesn’t it make sense that they should either say 1) keep your hands folded, 2) hold hands, 3) use orans, or 4) do what you want. But instead we get a simple statement saying that no posture is prescribed. And confusion still reigns.

Unbelievable!
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It makes no more sense now than it did before Vatican 2, when the Church did not say then what you should do with your hands. Granted that people did not generally hold hands then, but for those who claim to be confused, I would suggest that the confusion is a personal proble, not a problem of the majority of those in the pew.

Those who choose to be confused are perhaps those who expect that the minutest detail will be legislated; they long fo those days of yore when all was. Except that those days didn’t exist; it is a figment of the imagination.
 
Here’s a challenge to every Catholic on the face of planet Earth: Write a Letter to the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI and beg him to give a DEFINITE universal answer to the “Holding Hands During the Our Father” question that goes on forever in finitum and is never DEFINITELY resolved.

The Catholic Church and its members perpetually ask it–why not have the successor to Peter and Vicar of Christ just give us an answer?

And if you’re a bishop or a Cardinal or anyone who might have the actual opportunity of being in the Pope’s presence–just tell him that this question is the most perpetually asked question in the history of all Catholic Forums on the internet.

Who knows–Pope Benedict XVI was a great theologian even before he became pope–maybe he would dare to answer the question?

And if all of that won’t work then anyone who is in charge of children who sometimes do ask the Holy Father questions about the Catholic Faith–persuade the children to ask the Holy Father. I bet if a child asked Jesus such a question that Jesus would answer it!

I truely believe he would answer it if asked–and whatever his answer would be would be accepted by all!
 
Jerry-Jet said:
Here’s a challenge to every Catholic on the face of planet Earth: Write a Letter to the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI and beg him to give a DEFINITE universal answer to the “Holding Hands During the Our Father” question that goes on forever in finitum and is never DEFINITELY resolved.

The Catholic Church and its members perpetually ask it–why not have the successor to Peter and Vicar of Christ just give us an answer?

And if you’re a bishop or a Cardinal or anyone who might have the actual opportunity of being in the Pope’s presence–just tell him that this question is the most perpetually asked question in the history of all Catholic Forums on the internet.

Who knows–Pope Benedict XVI was a great theologian even before he became pope–maybe he would dare to answer the question?

And if all of that won’t work then anyone who is in charge of children who sometimes do ask the Holy Father questions about the Catholic Faith–persuade the children to ask the Holy Father. I bet if a child asked Jesus such a question that Jesus would answer it!

I truely believe he would answer it if asked–and whatever his answer would be would be accepted by all!
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Or, we could all put on our big boy or big girl panties, get over it, and get on about the business of Evangelization.
 
otjm said:
Or, we could all put on our big boy or big girl panties, get over it, and get on about the business of Evangelization.
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And when we “evangelize” and bring new members to the faith, we tell them to do WHAT during the “Our Father”?

Some folks have their hands folded, some outstretched, others holding hands, etc. – this certainly doesn’t shows the unity of Catholics in prayer.
 
Why the theatrics? Jesus instructs us to shut the door and pray to Our Father in private, and not make a show of it. The unity comes from the prayer, not the gestures. FWIW I attend Mass in a Benedictine abbey where the Our Father is sung in plainchant (in French, but the proper and kyriale are sung in Gregorian Chant). Some use the “Orans” position (“look at me, I’m praying…”), others like me simply stand “at ease”.

It seems to me that in a public setting, praying in “private” means not making a show of it, just solemnly and discreetly praying along with the assembly.

I also am uncomfortable with gestures that blur the line between the roles of the celebrant and the assembly in the liturgy (the “orans” position). We have our distinct vocations and roles to play in the liturgy and prayer life of the Church.

OraLabora
 
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