Holding hands during Pater Noster — Why?

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savedbychrist

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I went to Mass (in the OF) in a parish which I haven’t visited before, since it’s the only parish nearby that provides Mass at noon. I’ve seen videos of their Mass, and I did expect it to be contemporary and more Pentecostal-like.

Here’s a video of one of their Mass (the Mass I attended was better than this: at least the priest chanted the Eucharistic Prayer in a traditional tone):


Now here’s the thing: During the Pater Noster, almost all of the congregation held hands in the orans posture. I folded my hands before that, but I didn’t expect the lady who was originally about 3 feets away to have moved near, grasped my hand which was folded, and held it up. She didn’t seem like a rigid person, so I think it was just a posture of communion and welcome for her.

I wonder in the first place, where did this practice (of the congregation praying the Pater Noster in the orans posture and hands held together) originate from? For what reasons this was proposed and spreaded? (Since I’ve also seen this in other parishes, only that not all did so.)
 
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“savedbychrist said:
3 feets away to have moved near, grasped my hand which was folded, and held it up.
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okay, so I can kind of understand the orans position, and if I recall correctly, someone can correct me if I’m wrong, that is something that lay people do in the Eastern churches. Anyway, what you just said is exactly why I don’t think people should be holding hands during the Our Father. For one, it’s already awkward enough for me to shake your hand at the kiss of peace, 2, I actually had the same thing happen to me with an older lady, and 3, I would prefer to limit my physical contacts with people whom I actually want physical contact with. I even explain to that lady why I don’t like doing that. I was courteous , and I explained that it was a personal quirk that I have.
 
I was told by my old parish priest that you aren’t supposed to hold hands and it started back in the 60s when people started copying the postures of the deacon or priest. I never hold hands but last time I went to an OF Mass the lady next to my 13 year old son grabbed his hand and held it up with hers. She gave me the dirtiest look when she saw we weren’t holding each other’s hands or approving of her hand holding gestures. I had a long talk with my son after that incident and we most likely will not be going there again unless absolutely necessary.
 
When we first moved to the parish where we live now, the parish administrator who was temporarily in charge wanted the whole congregation to hold hands for the Our Father, all along every row. Nearly everyone did that, including my wife and me. Then a new pastor was appointed and he wanted it done differently. Now nearly everyone in the congregation, including us, uses the orans posture. I’m okay with it either way. The priest is the boss and I do what I’m told.
 
HvonB said:
So they are filling the void with new ones.
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The orans posture is not a new gesture. Is a very old one, from the Hebrew priests of the Temple. In Christianity, traditionally, it is reserved to the priest, at least in church.
So doing it as a congregation is not just some new manifest of faith but a change in the structure of worshipping, accent being on the royal priesthood of the people and not the charisma of the priest. Pope Francis recently spoke against the clericalizing of laypeople in the context that he prefers addressing women’s rights promoted in the Church rather than accepting laypeople becoming clerics.
 
Mary888 said:
The orans posture is not a new gesture. Is a very old one, from the Hebrew priests of the Temple. In Christianity, traditionally, it is reserved to the priest, at least in church.
So doing it as a congregation is not just some new manifest of faith but a change in the structure of worshipping, accent being on the royal priesthood of the people and not the charisma of the priest. Pope Francis recently spoke against the clericalizing of laypeople in the context that he prefers addressing women’s rights promoted in the Church rather than accepting laypeople becoming clerics.
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The orans posture is still reserved for the clergy. Nowhere in the GIRM does it say that the laity may use it:

 
Fauken said:
The orans posture is still reserved for the clergy. Nowhere in the GIRM does it say that the laity may use it:
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People use it all the time. Even in the East when I never saw it being using during the Liturgy, I did see this lady who was doing in in front of the altar when the church was empty.
 
HvonB said:
This isn’t the old orans posture, it also involves holding hands.

I find it very excluding, because I don’t belong to a culture of holding hands.
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Maybe the priest told them to hold hands to prevent them from standing in the orans posture.😏
 
In some parishes, people make a human chain across pews, etc. all through the church. In other parishes, nobody does this. I think when a few started to use the chain (for togtherness?) others assumed it was expected and joined in. I am more comfortable just clasping my hands in prayer and I do avoid the chains.
 
During private prayer, the orans position is sometimes chosen to indicate the person is “receptive.”

But… specifically during the mass it is solely a priestly hand position that not even the Deacon is permitted to use. Joining of hands is also not required but has been widely adopted.

In the movie Inception when Ariadne and Cobb share their first dream, Cobb asks “how did we get here?” Ariadne seems sure their current surroundings are real and starts to try and explain how they arrived at an outdoor cafe. But she can’t and she realizes she is dreaming. Cobb says that all dreams just sort of start in the middle and the dreamer always thinks they know how they got there.

I give you – the Novus Ordo Mass! No one knows how we got here but they are absolutely sure it is: valid, good, signed off on by the hierarchy, etc. Hand holding, waving peace signs to all the congregation during the sign of peace, all of this is just personality injcted into the liturgy. It isn’t harmless, either. It’s not nothing. It isn’t reverential and imbues a sense of pride in the boisterous, emotional way you grasp others’ hands and wave vigorously at all. Thinking on the corporate sinfulness of mankind; solidarity with human suffering; Christ’s suffering and death and the hope of the resurrection - all lost and replaced by pseudo psychoanalytical nonsense.

Mass is not a therapy session. It is the sacrifice on calvary.
 
Fauken said:
That doesn’t mean they ought to or can. It just means a lot of people are doing something the GIRM does not permit them to do.
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I know, I just wanted to point out that what people are doing at this congregation is not a singular case, a local rebellion of their or something like that. It’s up to the priest to correct them. If he doesn’t, can we, the “internet Inquisition”’ do more than gossip about it? 😧
Probably one day holding hands will be the norm since the priests imply it to be okay.
 
Mary888 said:
If he doesn’t, can we, the “internet Inquisition”’ do more than gossip about it? 😧
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This isn’t gossip. It is a widespread problem that is evidently giving people erroneous impressions, given how you earlier claimed it was allowing the laity to exercise their baptismal priesthood.
Mary888 said:
Probably one day holding hands will be the norm since the priests imply it to be okay.
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I sincerely hope not.
 
I fear people assume “if it were wrong then the priest would correct us.” But the clergy are somewhat trained to be PR reps, too. They are all aware of the dwindling attendance numbers and don’t want to seem… mean! Then those who want to observe proper forms are left to figure it out themselves.
 
As someone said, the hand-holding during the Our Father started in the 1960s and was supposed to be a gesture of community prayer.

Some parishes still do it. I won’t describe the ones I attend that do, or the manner in which they do it, because while I’m not big on the hand holding, I personally find hand holding or not hand holding to be a minor blip and I’m not interested in fomenting outrage about it.

And if you don’t want to hold hands, some people will respect that, some will grab your hand and some will give you a dirty look if you don’t want to hold hands. A couple years ago at the Easter Vigil, some lady in a pew in front of me actually contorted herself across the pew back in order to grab (forcefully) my hand at Our Father time. I figured she must be lonely or something to make her need to hold a stranger’s hand that bad (she was there by herself), and I offered it up.
 
Searching1 said:
But the clergy are somewhat trained to be PR reps, too. They are all aware of the dwindling attendance numbers and don’t want to seem… mean! Then those who want to observe proper forms are left to figure it out themselves.
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I know that most of the priests think this way that correction drives people away. But then… how come Arch. Sheen is so popular and he’s very strict on a lot of issues. And many other modern day clergy. So, the theory that people just leave if they don’t get their way is kind of unsubstantiated.
How about people leaving when they see that all is alright and the priests are just playing a show and not talking to people when there is a problem?
 
Mary888 said:
Probably one day holding hands will be the norm since the priests imply it to be okay.
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I doubt it. In the US, the practice has already dropped off in a huge way since the 1970s when it was at many churches. Now it’s only at certain ones, mostly populated by the generation that was promoting this stuff in the 1970s. The newer priests coming in for the most part do not promote hand-holding during Our Father, and in fact orans posture has become the norm in many areas. It remains to be seen how long that will last.

Many in US do not want to hold hands with a stranger because we’re not a “touchy” country in that way and people are concerned nowadays about transmission of germs via hands. a concern that has grown since the 1970s because of the public health officials emphasizing the need for handwashing.
 
I don’t like it. I just fold my hands for prayers. But recently (not Dec. 8 but one of the other holy days), the priest said to all go across all the pews and make chains by holding hands. I guess if the priest says to do it, it’s hard to refuse. But otherwise, I don’t do anything except fold my hands for prayers. That is what I always did, and I don’t see any good reason to do anything else now. And there are plenty of others doing as I do, just folding hands and praying.
 
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