Holding hands during the Lord's Prayer-Respectfully Declining

[otjm]

I used to hold hands and other times hold my hands up during the prayer. I copy-cat-ed the many others doing that, it seemed a pleasant gesture. Then I went to a class by our priest about those changes of wording in the Mass, and he was asked other questions. He said the Church never approved holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer – people just started doing it. Also he said the people were not supposed to be holding their hands up while praying; that posture belongs only to priests, like we see them doing in Mass when praying.

Then Father should have also mentioned that the posture of the priest at certain times is to have his hands held, palms together; and yet people do that also - and I would lay dollars to donuts he would not tell you to not do that in spite of the fact that it is a priestly posture.

Father says the Church never approved it; however, since it began, Rome has been inundated with questions about it. And ever since it began, Rome has chosen to not address the issue. Three times they have issued a set of General Instructions of the Roman Missal; and three times they have not commented on the matter. It is not like they have never heard about it. If Rome wanted to set a posture at that time, they most certainly could do it - after all, they set the norm for standing, for sitting, and for kneeling.

Some time ago someone a bit more knowledgeable made a public statement on the matter - it was the Colorado’s Archbishop Chaput - not someone I would call a flaming liberal. He made it clear that a) Rome knew about the matter; b) Rome clearly chose not to answer the matter in the GIRM and c) people who did not like it had no business criticizing those who held hands; those who did not wish to should be free to not do so; and both sides should react in charity towards the other. I think he may have known just a bit more about liturgy (given that he was then the chief liturgist in his archdiocese) than your priest.

The USCCB, in a move to change it a bit, was going to petition Rome for explicit permission for the orans position; that got dropped.

Currently, and after 47 years of the practice, Rome has not spoken when it had three different opportunities, while making/amending liturgical law, to do so.

I neither promote it nor object to it. It is the Our Father, not the My Father; and those who hold hands do it as a sign of unity in the “Our” part. It is not necessary; but neither is it prohibited.

Those here who prefer to not hold hands should not be made to do so; on the other hand, the issue of charity might indicate to some that it would be better to hold hands than to cause anger (and that is not to say the other person insisting on it is right and you wrong) and you will all have to decide whether it is better to remain aloof, or, in the words of my sainted grandmother, to hold hands and “offer it up”.

And if you are standing next to me in Mass, I don’t care if you hold my hand or not. It is that insignificant to me.

 

[otjm]

It’s not up to the laity (or the clergy, for that matter), to create new postures to become standardized. The fact is that holding or raising hands during the Our Father during Mass is an illicit act (as shown in previous posts with citations) that some parishes and dioceses are trying to standardize.

The citation was to a notitiae; the GIRM sets the postures. Furthermore, the notitiae was in 1975, ten years or so after it started, which is 37 years ago and indicative that it was not a liturgically binding instruction.

And the information of the time passage of a generally accepted matter can have the effect of (for lack of a better term) legitimizing it - and that comes from Canon lawyers, not me or someone else’s uneducated random opinion. Your assumption that all matters liturgical come from the top down is not correct.

 

[otjm]

It’s not up to the laity (or the clergy, for that matter), to create new postures to become standardized. The fact is that holding or raising hands during the Our Father during Mass is an illicit act (as shown in previous posts with citations) that some parishes and dioceses are trying to standardize.

I had to do some digging to find it; the answer was from a canon lawyer.

He noted that Canons 25 - 27 were relevant to the establishment of a custom. And the custom is established after thirty years.

 

[quiet52]

I tend to be intense during the celebration of the Mass, including during the Lord’s Prayer. I close my eyes and clasp my hands together, and intentionally pray each phrase. A few years ago, a woman standing next to me grabbed my hand even before the celebrant started the prayer, but I still closed my eyes and prayed fervently, forgetting I was holding someone’s hand. After we released hands, she complained to me I had hurt her hand, I held on to it so tightly. Now THAT was a distraction, even in following weeks, as I remembered my embarrassment and my fear that I would hurt another fragile hand. Since then, I have clasped my hands together, bowed my head, and closed my eyes, way before the priest begins the prayer. This didn’t work one time. Several lines into the prayer, a woman who had been standing a few feet away began tapping me on my shoulder, interrupting me in prayer because she wanted to hold hands. aaargh!

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I’m am suprised when I read this on CAF. I have never had a none family member try to take my hand during the Lord’s Prayer. In any church I’ve attended.

I usually have my hands folded (fingers interlocking) when praying. And during the Lord’s Prayer I often also have my eye’s closed.

In my own parish, even when folks next to me join hands, the person on the end doesn’t try to “link up” ouside the family/group. He usually just holds his “outside” hand up, but isn’t grabbing anyone. I’ve seen families/groups steated in the same pew and they will each hold hands within the family/group, but not with the family/group next to them.

Edited to add: in answer to the question, I’d just smile and shake my head no - and keep my hands folded in prayer.

My hubby is deployed, so I attend Mass alone. I am a stickler for being on time, so I usually get to church around 15 mins. early. I always sit in a pew that is empty. This parish is quite large and all 3 Masses on Sunday are quite full, so by the time Mass starts I am sitting almost right next to a family. Someone will always grab my hand. It is comforting for me. I find it as a kind gesture, since I am alone. This past Sunday the lady I was sitting next to hugged me during the sign of peace. I think a lot of people feel sorry for me because for 1. I am alone and 2. while I am 24 years old I could pass for a 15 year old easily. lol.

 

[larsont7]

I had to do some digging to find it; the answer was from a canon lawyer.

He noted that Canons 25 - 27 were relevant to the establishment of a custom. And the custom is established after thirty years.

It seems that the Canons you are referencing have a caveat - they must be “approved by the legislator.”

TITLE II: CUSTOM (Cann. 23 - 28)

Can. 23 A custom introduced by a community of the faithful has the force of law only if it has been approved by the legislator, in accordance with the following canons.

Can. 26 Unless it has been specifically approved by the competent legislator, a custom which is contrary to the canon law currently in force, or is apart from the canon law, acquires the force of law only when it has been lawfully observed for a period of thirty continuous and complete years. Only a centennial or immemorial custom can prevail over a canonical law which carries a clause forbidding future customs.

To say that holding/raising the hands during the Our Father has been a custom lawfully observed for 30 continuous and complete years in any diocese is making an awfully big assumption.

 

[MaryRita85]

I am surprised this was so split. I am a very friendly person, no doubt about that but I feel more comfortable not holding hands. If I am not with my family, I try to sit away from people but for some reason, people always feel drawn to sit by me, even when the church isn’t packed (I attend different Mass times). I surely don’t want to offend, but hopefully with a polite smile I will get my point across.

 

[R_C]

Sorry, but this is not a novelty as it has been going on in Mass for at least 47 years

47 years is a novelty, in fact the protestant changes to their own liturgies are 500 years old now and they remain and will remain novelties, because the true sacred liturgy developed itself over a span of almost 2000 years. Try taking a visit at a Parish celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or the Byzantine Rite, or some other rite that has not been subject to an “update” in the 1970s and then you’ll realize what I mean

 

[R_C]

And by the way, holding your hands with palms together and fingers pointing out is NOT in the Rubrics either.

It is a standard prayer posture and it is (or at least was) rubrical for priest celebrating, deacon, and altar servers. It was clearly the standard prayer posture for the laity as well, while other postures (such as the orans) were reserved for the ordained ministers. The posture symbolizes our hands in the manner of “a prisoner of Christ”, and the thumbs are folded one on top of the other in the form of a cross.

 

[Brendan]

I had to do some digging to find it; the answer was from a canon lawyer.

He noted that Canons 25 - 27 were relevant to the establishment of a custom. And the custom is established after thirty years.

FYI, parishes cannot establish a canonical custom. And for a diocese, it must be in the form of published permission

Here is Dr. Ed Peters re a published case ( it’s in Latin)
www.canonlaw.info/PDF-Altera.pdf

 

[Ohana]

Oh once again we are on this topic. Our priest often states that we are called to relationship with Christ and we are also called to community . Sunday Mass in particular is really a communal experience as with the first Christians back in the year 40 or so. I do not mind if people do not want to hold hands. I do so with my family and with anyone else who cares todo so. I would never however, reject the hand that reached out to me in the context of Mass. it just would not seem right. I can understand that some do not feel this way. For reasons of communicable disease, personal hesitancy etc. We need not be so critical of those who do not wish to do so. I hope we stop trying to “prove” that our way is the right way, and move more to the thought of what Jesus would want us to do.

 

[cheezey]

It is called manners.

Manners also include doing one’s best to avoid sharing your nasty, icky cold, the one one that isn’t so bad as to miss Mass, but bad enough that you don’t want to share it. It’s considerate not to put others’ at risk.
Besides, it makes the peace sign of the hand come in handy!

 

[R_C]

Sunday Mass in particular is really a communal experience

I recommend you read THE SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY, by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. In an article on the Roman Theological Forum about this work, Fr. Brian Harrison explains:

This … has implications for that recently fashionable tendency to ‘fragment’ the liturgy in a ‘populist’ or ‘democratic’ way, reinventing it ‘creatively’ according to the supposed ‘needs’ of each local community. As Ratzinger stresses, the continuity between the ancient Temple sacrifices and the Mass means that “universality is an essential feature of Christian worship”:

It is never just an event in the life of a community that finds itself in a particular place. No, to celebrate the Eucharist means to enter into the openness of a glorification of God that embraces both heaven and earth, and openness effected by the Cross and Resurrection. Christian liturgy is never just an event organized by a particular group or set of people or even by a particular local Church.

Indeed, far from emphasising ‘creativity’ and ‘spontaneity’ in liturgy, we should be suspicious of such tendencies. In regard to the great historic rites, Ratzinger adds bluntly

*Unspontaneity is of their essence. In these rites I discover that something is approaching me here that I did not produce myself, that I am entering into something greater than myself, which ultimately derives from divine revelation. This is why the Christian East calls the liturgy the “Divine Liturgy”, expressing thereby the liturgy’s independence from human control. …]

Eventually, the idea of the givenness of the liturgy, the fact that one cannot do with it what one will, faded from the public consciousness of the West. …] The greatness of the liturgy depends - we shall have to repeat this frequently - on its unspontaneity *

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

The citation was to a notitiae; the GIRM sets the postures. Furthermore, the notitiae was in 1975, ten years or so after it started, which is 37 years ago and indicative that it was not a liturgically binding instruction.

And the information of the time passage of a generally accepted matter can have the effect of (for lack of a better term) legitimizing it - and that comes from Canon lawyers, not me or someone else’s uneducated random opinion. Your assumption that all matters liturgical come from the top down is not correct.

On watching EWTN I dont see anyone holding hands while saying the Our Father, or when I travelled to Spain/Italy nobody there either hold hands nor In Ireland where I am from , someone has started it up in parts of America , which is incorrect and as faithful Catholics we should not be doing was is not approved, holding hands as for holding our hands up that is absolutely scandalous , that is only for the priest to do, if I saw a person do this I would personally tell them to put there hands down until they were ordained to do so.
Maybe if someone goes to grab your hand at the Our Father just say quietly to them that is an action not approved by Rome, and have a talk with the Priest to announce it before the homily.
It is not about making friends or interacting with our fellow brothers in Christ. It is in focusing on the Spotless Lamb alone that we find true communion with our brothers and sisters. Mass should be totally and entirely focused on Him, with utmost reverence and attention towards the altar and the minister acting in persona Christi, as if Jesus Christ Himself stood before our very eyes.

 

[ProVobis]

It is not about making friends or interacting with our fellow brothers in Christ. It is in focusing on the Spotless Lamb alone that we find true communion with our brothers and sisters. Mass should be totally and entirely focused on Him, with utmost reverence and attention towards the altar and the minister acting in persona Christi, as if Jesus Christ Himself stood before our very eyes.

I’d like to add the four reasons of attending Mass, at least according to Cardinal Arinze, are adoration, thanksgiving, propitiation, and supplication.

books.google.com/books?id=nxwaTZ50KmgC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=arinze+four+reasons+why+we+go+to+mass+adoration+thanksgiving&source=bl&ots=5AFbmrbTz-&sig=1uSKPB5awAXWVqG6jITyO-YrVvQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KoCKUdLJFZHyyAG9moFw&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=arinze%20four%20reasons%20why%20we%20go%20to%20mass%20adoration%20thanksgiving&f=false

 

[Filii_Dei]

It used to be a widespread phenomenon in our diocese, which I suspect was adopted from the United States (no offense to my American friends). Fortunately, it has now either died out or morphed into a general orans position instead of explicit hand-holding. The only hand-holding I see these days are within families and close friends, so I’ve never had a problem with people expecting me to hold their hand. Maybe we’re not so touchy-feely where we are.

That being said, I look forward to the day we stop with this misguided practice. If people want to pray in orans, fine, but those who really mean to do so will use that position throughout the liturgy. On the other hand, those who only do it for the Lord’s Prayer appear as though they were mimicking the priest, though they probably aren’t aware of it.

 

[otjm]

It seems that the Canons you are referencing have a caveat - they must be “approved by the legislator.”

TITLE II: CUSTOM (Cann. 23 - 28)

Can. 23 A custom introduced by a community of the faithful has the force of law only if it has been approved by the legislator, in accordance with the following canons.

Can. 26 Unless it has been specifically approved by the competent legislator, a custom which is contrary to the canon law currently in force, or is apart from the canon law, acquires the force of law only when it has been lawfully observed for a period of thirty continuous and complete years. Only a centennial or immemorial custom can prevail over a canonical law which carries a clause forbidding future customs.

To say that holding/raising the hands during the Our Father has been a custom lawfully observed for 30 continuous and complete years in any diocese is making an awfully big assumption.

The bishop is the legislator in a diocese; he is the chief liturgist. And no, it is not a big assumption; it has been going on for 47 years.

 

[otjm]

47 years is a novelty, in fact the protestant changes to their own liturgies are 500 years old now and they remain and will remain novelties, because the true sacred liturgy developed itself over a span of almost 2000 years. Try taking a visit at a Parish celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or the Byzantine Rite, or some other rite that has not been subject to an “update” in the 1970s and then you’ll realize what I mean

47 years is not a novelty according to Canon law; it is a custom. You may call it a novelty, but that is a different use of the term.

 

[otjm]

It is a standard prayer posture and it is (or at least was) rubrical for priest celebrating, deacon, and altar servers. It was clearly the standard prayer posture for the laity as well, while other postures (such as the orans) were reserved for the ordained ministers. The posture symbolizes our hands in the manner of “a prisoner of Christ”, and the thumbs are folded one on top of the other in the form of a cross.

And the orans position predates the Church.

I am old enough to know what the postures were before Vatican 2. The argument that the orans position is a priestly posture is produced to argue the licitness of the posture; as noted, the USCCB at one point was moving to request permission to use it. And as noted, after three versions of the GIRM specifically failing to address the holding of hands, and at least two not addressing the orans posture, it should be apparent to any observer that Rome does not take the matter as significant enough to rule to the contrary.

 

[otjm]

FYI, parishes cannot establish a canonical custom. And for a diocese, it must be in the form of published permission

Here is Dr. Ed Peters re a published case ( it’s in Latin)
www.canonlaw.info/PDF-Altera.pdf

well, he does seem to have an alternate opinion. I will leave it to Canonical scholars to argue the fine points; at least in my archdiocese it is and has been, if not “universal”, at least extremely widespread for well more than 30 years.

Oh - and the 30 year comment was from another somewhat erudite Canon lawyer. I can’t speak for Canon law; but if one gets three lawyers together on a civil law question, one is apt to get four opinions. Roma non locuta est.