Holding hands during the Our Father.

[stephraim]

I know it is not required. A lot of the altar servers do it and it is getting on my nerves. I hate holding hands. How do I tell them to stop.

You could quote the Ceremonial of Bishops:

No. 107. The bishop keeps his hands joined: when, vested, he walks in procession for the celebration of a liturgy; when he is kneeling at prayer; when he moves from altar to chair or from chair to altar; when the liturgical books prescribe joined hands.

Similarly, ministers keep their hands joined (n.80) when walking from place to place or when standing, unless they are holding something.

N. 80. “Hands joined” means: “Holding the palms sideward and together before the breast, with the right thumb crossed over the left.” (Cf. Caeremoniale Episcoporum, ed. 1886, I, XIX, 1)

 

[JM3]

I didn’t intend to offer it as some kind of evidence against hand-holding, I certainly believe that it gives credence to the interpretation found by many theologians that hand-holding rises to the level of ‘adding’ to the Mass.

The Bishop has the authority to add, remove and change anything in the liturgy as stated in SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM (which I posted (#21)). He makes the determination about postures for his diocese.

 

[Cristiano]

The Bishop has the authority to add, remove and change anything in the liturgy as stated in SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM (which I posted (#21)). He makes the determination about postures for his diocese.

Are you really saying that the Bishop has the authority or that he has NOT the authority?

 

[pismopal]

exactly. I do not see the liturgy as so strict that it dictates every body position. If I want to pray holding a loved one’s hand then I see nothing illicit in that action. I’m not jumping in the aisles calling attention to myself. I am holding a loved one’s hand.

Personally I consider all my fellow Catholics as loved ones.

My take on the thread is that issue is the en mass holding of hands during the Our Father. If families want to hold hands at any time I see no problem. My objection is the grabbing of my hand by my neighbor when actually I prefer to concentrate on the reason I am at mass…the liturgy. If the GIRM says we hold hands I will do so obediently and try to enjoy it but it doesn’t and neither do I.

 

[Havard]

The Bishop has the authority to add, remove and change anything in the liturgy as stated in SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM (which I posted (#21)). He makes the determination about postures for his diocese.

Perhaps it would clarify things if I reposted my initial post.

I do have a problem with anything that is introduced on personal initiative.

Both the aforementioned Sacrosanctum Concilium section, and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law make it abundantly clear that personal initiative is not an appropriate basis for adding to the sacred liturgy.

Clearly bishops have the authority to add to the liturgy, but as far as I’m aware, this thread has been a discussion about the laity holding hands on their own initiative. I don’t recall anyone discussing a situation where a bishop duly directs his diocese to hold hands.

 

[JM3]

Are you really saying that the Bishop has the authority or that he has NOT the authority?

SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM clearly states that the Bishop HAS the authority. It also says ‘as laws may determine’, which would indicate those things in Canon Law that the Bishop cannot ‘add, remove or change’. IMO

 

[JM3]

Clearly bishops have the authority to add to the liturgy, but as far as I’m aware, this thread has been a discussion about the laity holding hands on their own initiative. I don’t recall anyone discussing a situation where a bishop duly directs his diocese to hold hands.

Actually, this thread is about servers holding hands and that decision belongs to the Bishop. There has been only one post that stated a Bishop did forbid it in his diocese.

 

[Havard]

Actually, this thread is about servers holding hands and that decision belongs to the Bishop. There has been only one post that stated a Bishop did forbid it in his diocese.

When I joined, the discussion, it had already moved onto the topic of individual practice. Therefore, in my first post #30, after a list of others, I clearly gave my opinion regarding personal practice. In post #40, vsedriver said he personally takes it upon himself to hold hands, so in post #41, I responded to that personal practice. That lead to my discussion with happymommy in post #44 about, again, her personal practices. That lead to my talking about postures in general with both vsedriver and happymommy. Then you come along and criticize posts that I didn’t intend for you, telling me they don’t prove something I had said earlier. And now you tell me that I’m wrong because the OP asked about altar servers, even though it’s abundantly clear that I came in past that and, along with the majority of other posters, have moved on from it?

For heaven’s sake, are you intentionally trying my patience? :doh2:

 

[happymommy]

When I joined, the discussion, it had already moved onto the topic of individual practice. Therefore, in my first post #30, after a list of others, I clearly gave my opinion regarding personal practice. In post #40, vsedriver said he personally takes it upon himself to hold hands, so in post #41, I responded to that personal practice. That lead to my discussion with happymommy in post #44 about, again, her personal practices. That lead to my talking about postures in general with both vsedriver and happymommy. Then you come along and criticize posts that I didn’t intend for you, telling me they don’t prove something I had said earlier. And now you tell me that I’m wrong because the OP asked about altar servers, even though it’s abundantly clear that I came in past that and, along with the majority of other posters, have moved on from it?

For heaven’s sake, are you intentionally trying my patience? :doh2:

Don’t let them bother you. I appreciate your kindness with me. Thank you!

 

[misformedclay]

i really love holding hands during the our father. I go to a life teen mass and most people either hold hands or put their arms around each other. Maybe it’s just because I’m a teenager and we tend to show love more outwardly but I feel great when all my friends and family are all together around me in christ. I feel like a part of the community and i think it’s a great outward symbol of the living communion that we are. i think it’s awkward if you let it be but maybe you could stretch yourself to think of it as just a symbol of being all parts of the body of christ. i think you might find that it’s a great experience after all.

 

[Havard]

It’s happened in every parish I’ve been to since… I’m gonna say the late 90’s? Except when I lived in England in '00-'01.

i really love holding hands during the our father. I go to a life teen mass and most people either hold hands or put their arms around each other. Maybe it’s just because I’m a teenager and we tend to show love more outwardly but I feel great when all my friends and family are all together around me in christ. I feel like a part of the community and i think it’s a great outward symbol of the living communion that we are. i think it’s awkward if you let it be but maybe you could stretch yourself to think of it as just a symbol of being all parts of the body of christ. i think you might find that it’s a great experience after all.

Oh, you’re right, it can feel good! But nearly every tiny detail of the liturgy has great meaning and history, and as Catholics, everyone the world over gets to appreciate it in this beautiful way. So before I jump to accept an addition, I’ll look to the Church authorities to make the final call.

 

[MJford]

The pastor is responsible for the proper training of servers.You may copy and bring some directives from altar servers manuals to show your objections to the servers hand holding but I believe the pastor normally is aware of this practise .
You can offer your services to train the servers. Short of that you are probally stuck with what you have.

Well, I I am already helping with the servers so I could put this somewhere in the stuff I am typing up. My youth group’s music ministry also holds hands during the Our Father, which is one of the reasons I don’t play guitar with them (the other is I am not that good and would rather listen to chant).