Holding Hands during the Our Father

[Rich_C]

I get that Father shouldn’t tell you to do so. I agree with that.

But to be honest, sometimes I start to wonder whether you guys are against human contact in general… inside OR outside of Mass…

Not at all! Outside of Mass I enjoy a good, manly handshake once in a while, as long we cough loudly and don’t make eye contact. Hugs are just over the top, though. Like Oprah.

 

[ZoeyBdo]

I’ve never been to a church were people hold hands during the Our Father.

Some people hold their hands up, some hold them together, but never holding hands.

 

[SeekNFind]

I don’t like the holding hands. I really can’t stand when individuals assume the orans position during the Our Father. I feel like it takes the focus from God and puts it on the person sitting in the 4th row.

All of this is about catechisis. Nobody’s being taught and nobody cares to learn.

I don’t understand why the orans posture really bothers people. What is it that bothers you? I don’t do it but it doesn’t bother me.

 

[grandfather]

What is interesting to me is why there is confusion and constroversy among Catholics about how to worship, what to do at Mass. We suddenly don’t know how to do what we have done for 2,000 years.

I go to Divine Liturgy at an Eastern Church. They have not monkeyed with their Liturgy post Vatican II. We do what we do throughout the liturgical year as it has been done since antiquity. We don’t have any controversies or disputes about what to do and when. The Liturgy is very beautiful. We don’t have to figure out how to make it meaningful.

I have a friend who was pastor of a RC parish nearby. He was always agonizing over how to make Mass more meaningful, or what to do each Lent to make it meaningful for his parishoners. He came up with some pretty interesting things like hanging reminders of this and that over the door lintel.

He also struggled with how to accomodate all the exrtaordinary Eucharistic ministers. On weekdays there were more EEMs than communicants.

This stuff is not something that we should be having to deal with at worship. Everyone should know what to do and when. If we can’t figure out what to do at Mass it is only another sign that we are living in a time of confusion. We know who the author of confusion is.

 

[suezq123]

I’m a brand new catholic. Why is it frowned upon to say the ending of the our father?

 

[Rich_C]

I don’t understand why the orans posture really bothers people. What is it that bothers you? I don’t do it but it doesn’t bother me.

I think there is an actual issue with this, whereas not necessarily with hand holding.

In the traditional Mass, it is very clear that the priest is interceding for the people before Almighty God. This is less obvious in the new missal and compounded by the generally bad state of catechesis has led many Catholic to not understand the special role of the priest at Mass, which in turn confuses awareness or understanding of the Holy Sacrifice and the significance of the Eucharist. Some parishes have no problem with this, but it seems that in the US most do.

When people adopt the orans position in imitation of father, it further conflates the role of the ordained priesthood and the priesthood of all believers, which (see above) can have serious ramifications on central Catholic theology related to the Mass.

I hope that made sense, I’m not feeling my sharpest.

 

[Rich_C]

I’m a brand new catholic. Why is it frowned upon to say the ending of the our father?

Some people don’t like it because it wasn’t part of the Roman Mass until 1970 and the nearest place we’ve seen it is among some Protestant sects. This used to bother me a lot as I thought that it amounted to the insertion of Protestant prayers into the Mass, but I gritted my teeth and kept my opinions to myself.

However, apparently it was used in ancient Eastern Catholic liturgies and was adopted to make the Mass more East-friendly. I think that cuts the legs from under any concerns, and I try not to let my feelings on it bother me.

I recommend you don’t worry about it, either.

 

[Rockie01]

Found this on EWTN Website:

Holding Hands at Mass

Concerning holding hands in the Eucharistic Liturgy the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome responded as follows:

QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon’s invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord’s Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: “Let us offer each other the sign of peace” should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226. [Notitiae is the journal of the Congregation in which its official interpretations of the rubrics are published.]

While this addresses the holding of hands at the Sign of Peace the reasons given apply also elsewhere in the Mass, including at the Our Father.

1. It is an inappropriate “sign,” since Communion is the sign of intimacy. Thus, a gesture of intimacy is introduced both before the sign of reconciliation (the Sign of Peace), but more importantly, before Holy Communion, the sacramental sign of communion/intimacy within the People of God.
2. It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II’s “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy” #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.

This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.

'nuff said.

 

[Rockie01]

Rockie wonder if you got our Fr Joe who went there from Stewart- couldn’t have gotten through my husband’s deployment as well without Fr Joe’s instructions and that military parish family.
We too have been to all sorts of parishes , some hold hands some don’t we just do as a family and gently hold our hands up if someone wants to take it fine. Is it really such a big deal?
I do find the moving across isles to hold hands distracting along with the kneelers and people still saying peace when Fr has started the next prayer.

I was at Kunsan “Wolfpack” 2001-2002 (yep I was there when 09/11 happened), and had the pleasure of serving with Fr. Martin King, ex T.I., he gave an apologetics class, encouraged active participation in daily Rosary, weekends he would drive us to ChonJu to work at a nursing home for the aged run by a sister Nelson. He definitely made that “remote” assignment one filled with meaningful service. It was “AWESOME”!

 

[CB_Catholic]

It is the norm in so many parishes. I never knew we weren’t supposed to do it. I NEVER do it in the weekday Masses and no one else does either. But we do say “For the kingdom, the power and the glory are yours, now and forever” just like good Protestants…



Sometimes I just say “Amen” quietly where it belongs and I don’t say the rest.

The doxology is not Protestant. It is very Catholic. We were the first to use it, and now we are taking it back. It is a very nice doxology and gives glory to God.

It is found in the Didache. You don’t have to like saying it, but don’t call it Protestant.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

This is the second time this has been posted in this thread.
And as I said before “apples & oranges”.
The question is about replacing the sign of peace with hand-holding during the Our Father, not if holding hands during the Our Father is acceptable.

One cannot make a statment say something that it does not.

Found this on EWTN Website:

Holding Hands at Mass

Concerning holding hands in the Eucharistic Liturgy the Congregation for Divine Worship in Rome responded as follows:

QUERY: In some places there is a current practice whereby those taking part in the Mass replace the giving of the sign of peace at the deacon’s invitation by holding hands during the singing of the Lord’s Prayer. Is this acceptable? REPLY: The prolonged holding of hands is of itself a sign of communion rather than of peace. Further, it is a liturgical gesture introduced spontaneously but on personal initiative; it is not in the rubrics. Nor is there any clear explanation of why the sign of peace at the invitation: “Let us offer each other the sign of peace” should be supplanted in order to bring a different gesture with less meaning into another part of the Mass: the sign of peace is filled with meaning, graciousness, and Christian inspiration. Any substitution for it must be repudiated: Notitiae 11 (1975) 226. [Notitiae is the journal of the Congregation in which its official interpretations of the rubrics are published.]

While this addresses the holding of hands at the Sign of Peace the reasons given apply also elsewhere in the Mass, including at the Our Father.

1. It is an inappropriate “sign,” since Communion is the sign of intimacy. Thus, a gesture of intimacy is introduced both before the sign of reconciliation (the Sign of Peace), but more importantly, before Holy Communion, the sacramental sign of communion/intimacy within the People of God.
2. It is introduced on personal initiative. The Holy See has authority over the liturgy according to Vatican II’s “Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy” #22 and canon 838 of the Code of Canon Law.

This gesture has come into widespread use, often leaving bishops and pastors at a loss as to how to reverse the situation. For individuals, I would recommend closed eyes and a prayerful posture as sufficient response, rather than belligerence. Most laity, and probably many priests, are blind to the liturgical significance of interrupting the flow of the Mass in this way. It is not necessary to lose one’s peace over this or be an irritation to others. Some proportion is required. If asked why you don’t participate, simply, plainly and charitably tell the questioner of your discovery. If some chance of changing the practice is possible talk to the pastor or work with other laity through the parish council. You can also write the bishop, as is your right in the case of any liturgical abuse not resolved at the parish level. If your judgment is that no change is possible then I believe you are excused from further fraternal correction.

'nuff said.

 

[Rockie01]

To: "one of…
“Okay, thanks but it makes sense to me”.

 

[JW55]

I was under the impression it was not to be encouraged by the priest at any point. People may do it spontaneously, if they wish. My wife and I don’t do it. It seems sort of Protestant to me. When we were in Europe, I never saw it done in any of the churches we attended. I’ve only seen it in the U.S.

 

[Stylites]

Even in far away Malta, Europe, I’ve seen people holding hands during the Our Father, but very few. Personally I don’t like it much. Never do it. But then it is no big deal, is it?

God bless.

Victor

Really not, Victor.

 

[ArleneM20019]

We do not actually hold hands during the Our Father, what we do is hold our hands openly upward. We do say the whole Our Father, after the priest says his prayer with "For the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory are yours, now and forever. We were never told to hold hands, it is just the tradition.

We have been told during flu season that if we chose not to hold hands during the exchange of peace, it is fine. I chose not to do so during flu season.

 

[Stylites]

It is the norm in so many parishes. I never knew we weren’t supposed to do it. I NEVER do it in the weekday Masses and no one else does either. But we do say “For the kingdom, the power and the glory are yours, now and forever” just like good Protestants…



Sometimes I just say “Amen” quietly where it belongs and I don’t say the rest.

Actually, the Final Doxology well predates Protestantism. They use it even though it isn’t in the Bible. Where did they get it from? From the Mass. We ought not cut off our nose to spite our face.

 

[grandfather]

However, apparently it was used in ancient Eastern Catholic liturgies and was adopted to make the Mass more East-friendly. .

Do you know which Eastern Liturgies added this to the prayer Christ taught us?

This is the first I have heard that anything that took place in formulating the new Mass was to make Eastern Christians comfortable with it. Paul VI was told that Protestants would like it, but if you ask any Easterners what they think of the new Mass you will probably not get very much positive feedback. Maybe a polite shrug. If the new Mass was designed with pleasing the East in mind most would say it failed to achieve the objective…

 

[TrueLight]

Actually, the Final Doxology well predates Protestantism. They use it even though it isn’t in the Bible. Where did they get it from? From the Mass. We ought not cut off our nose to spite our face.

It’s actually in the King James and other Protestant Bibles I’ve seen. It is my understanding that some manuscripts have it and some don’t.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

I don’t do it. Someone told me that it all started back in the sixties during the AA meetings in church basements and made its way into Mass.

Just before we get to that part of the Mass, I have my hands folded and my eyes closed in prayer. Of course, if by chance someone reached out and grabbed my hand, I wouldn’t want to be uncharitable, but because I’m already focusing on what the priest is saying and in prayer, this hasn’t happened so far. In the north,when visiting, I found no parishes holding hands during the prayer.

I am happy to shake hands during the peace, :angel1:but I don’t believe we are supposed to be holding hands during the Our Father. :heaven:

In some parishes a few years ago during the flu epidemic, they began placing large pump bottles of hand sanitizer around and some people who temporarily stopped holding hands began to realize that it’s not necessary to do so, and from then on, less and less people are doing it. The Real Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ is what unites us.
:harp::heaven:Kathryn Ann

 

[adrift]

I get the impression that you believe that “no position is prescribed” means that you can do anything.
First off the Bishops said a bit more

No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.

It isn’t just no position prescribed but that no position is proscribed for an assembly. The directions from the Church is proactive that is they tell you what you MAY do not what you can’t. Here the Bishops say that is isn’t part of what the congregation May do. You will not find a directive that the congregation hold hands. They are not speaking of individuals but congregations. Hand holding is wrong when it becomes a congregational action which the Bishops say is not prescribed.