Holding Hands during the "Our Father"

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JamesReuter

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This seems to be a fairly new phenomenon, and I’ve noticed that the younger people tend to hold hands, while the older people and some religious do not. I had no problem with it, yet some of my friends have referred to this as “modernist.” I was just wondering what you thought on this subject.

Thanks,
James
 
Please go to the top of this page or the top of the home page

Click on Search

Type in ORANS and enter

about half way down the first page, you will see quite a few threads on the topic.

click on any one and see what fellow posters have had to say… some very recent.
 
I’ve noticed at my parish about 30-40% of the people there do the orans position (either just raising their hands during the Our Father and/or holding hands with their neighbor during it). I don’t do it just simply because I see no personal reason for it, opinions on the subject will definitely differ. I think its a “to each his own” type thing.
 
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JamesReuter:
This seems to be a fairly new phenomenon, and I’ve noticed that the younger people tend to hold hands, while the older people and some religious do not. I had no problem with it, yet some of my friends have referred to this as “modernist.” I was just wondering what you thought on this subject.

Thanks,
James
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What do you think of it?
 
OK, I like holding hands during the Our Father, and we raise our (still held) hands when we say the after prayer (for the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory are Yours now & forever). Holding hands is the common practice at my parish - and my mom is one who will reach behind her to hold someone’s hand if she is on the end. I did not know I wasn’t supposed to lift my hands when I respond - “we lift them up to the Lord” or when I respond “and also with you” - basically, I saw a few others doing it and it seemed appropriate. I never heard any controversy about the orans position before - actually never even heard the term before. From what I’ve read here, it is up to my Bishop. I will check the Archdiocese website.
 
It’s a protestant practice that is plaguing our liturgy. Sorry to sound so harsh, but think about it this way. With Oran’s, why would you need to hold out your hands with your palms facing the sky when Jesus is right here with us at the altar? In the case of holding hands, we shouldn’t be focusing on holding hands with our neighbors at this point in mass. Since the bread and wine were just physically turned into the body and blood of Christ, we should be focusing on that. Again, it’s a protestant thing that has crept into our liturgy. It’s not in the GIRM and never will be.
 
Exactly, it is not in the GIRM, more specifically adding things to the liturgy is in fact an abuse. It really is not proper.
 
As Karl Keating said early on, it tends to make a legitimate rite (sign/kiss of peace) appear redundant.
 
There was nothing discouraging either practice (holding hands or lifting hands) on the Archidocese webiste. There were a few minor changes implemented in our parish after the new GIRM - the responsorial Psalm is now sung from the same place as the other readings & Gospel, rather than from the Cantor’s area.

DianeZ
 
I thought the “for thine is the kingdom…” at least in one Bible version I had, was noted that it was not “authentic” but was added by a monk to a manuscript “after the fact.”

The NAB doesn’t seem to have that phrase in Matthew 6 at all, nor does the Douay-Rheims version.

Now in Protestant Bibles, the NIV has a footnote on Matt 6:13 that in “some late manuscripts” it also adds “for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.”

The KJV has it right in there, with no footnotes, along with several other versions the RCC doesn’t use.

Actually this was what really confused me, as I was “on haitus” from the church during my college years and slightly thereafter, and I came back after listening to certain non-Catholics teach the Bible. When I was little, my best friend’s (Lutheran) mother used to gloat that Gary’s “our father” was longer than mine, because they’ve been adding this all along.

So here I come back to the Catholic Church, after having studied the Bible, and was surprised to see what appeared to be “inauthentic” passage from the Bible added to the Mass. That shocked me more than lifting the hands did.

Does anybody know why this evidently non-Biblical phrase was added to the Mass? I’m hoping that since so many people debate this “hands lifting” thing that maybe somebody knows why that part of the Mass is even there. I’m not challenging it, just curious.

Personally I do not prefer to hold hands, or especially raise them, but I will do so if there are people next to me who obviously want to and I don’t dislike them too much. (just kidding about the dislike thing 😛 ) Actually I have a very embarrassing story to tell on this very subject, but I’ll spare you it at least for this post.

Alan
 
Give it up, Alan. We love embarrassing stories. :clapping:

I read somewhere that “For thine is the Kingdom…” was actually part of an ancient Catholic liturgy. Ironic that the Protestants decided to add it to their version of the Our Father.

If I wasn’t such a lazy slug, I’d look it up and post a link. But I am lazy. In fact, all this typing is exhausting. :sleep:
 
Dr. Bombay:
Give it up, Alan. We love embarrassing stories. :clapping:
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Oh no. An audience. That’s one thing I don’t think I can ever resist! For me that’s almost as hard to resist as the Double Dog Dare. 😛

OK. Well, how far back? hmm…

When I went to college, that was it for me and going to church for a while. I don’t know if I ever had missed Mass until I moved away from my parents. Anyhow, that was in 1977 and sometime about 1985 I got back into going to Church and it seemed things had changed. Most notably, Communion in the hand – I never received that way, not having been instructed, until years later when our pastor went over the norms like he does about once a year. The holding hands thing, never heard anything about it and it bothered me.

OK, fast forward. My oldest son Matt and a friend of my oldest daughter Catherine have been somewhat contentious for years, but four weeks ago it got worse than usual. The girl, Karen, has been cantoring for me for a few years now; she shows up almost every Sunday for 8 am Mass. Sometimes if my kids are with me they’ll join and have several kids singing. If nobody shows up, I cover it.

So four weeks ago, Karen and Matt both sang as cantors. Afterwards, Matt and Karen seemed more rude than usual toward each other.

I asked Matt why the increased tensions.

Apparently Karen had tried to holds hands with Matt during the Our Father and Matt wouldn’t. Well, she returned the favor by refusing to shake Matt’s hand during the handshake of peace. I hadn’t noticed this going on at the time. She thought Matt’s refusal to Hold Hands was out of his animosity toward her.

The following week, I started to explain to her that Matt just hated holding hands; it wasn’t a personal thing for her. So before Mass started, I was explaining this and regaled her with the tale of how this hand-holding thing always struck me as slightly Protestant, and that they started doing it when I was away from Church, plus they did it Without Consulting Me.

Now it gets worse. It came time for Mass and we played the opening hymn, sang the responses etc. Then during the sermon I completed the explanation by writing notes! :eek: We are hidden behind the organ and piano, so it’s not like we were disturbing anyone else. As I explained all the reasons we didn’t like to do this, including the fact that Nobody Consulted Me about it and several other points, I concluded by saying – and besides, it always makes me feel slightly … gay.

She was amused, and apparently understood and when the Our Father came, she smiled in my direction.

Now comes next week. Her whole family was there – siblings, cousin, and both parents – and I noticed during the Our Father that they were enthusiastically Holding Hands, and they all raised in perfect unison at the “for thine” part.

Aaaahhhh!! Suddenly I felt Terribly Evil, just having completely trashed this custom of the family of a Minor Child (she and Cath are HS sophomores). If there’s one thing I believe in, it might be Not Trashing a Minor Child’s Family’s Customs.

So the following week, as an act of penance, without any warning, I offered my hand to Karen before the Our Father, and willingly Raised when It Was Time, and yes, I did it – even the little squeezy-hand thing before letting go! Yes, I went the whole route. Last week, Catherine was there too and looked a bit surrised when I started the handholding thing for a Second Week in a row, but she took my hand and Karen’s and we did “the thing” (I did skip the squeezy-hand thing at least, but Karen didn’t know because I was holding Catherine’s hand at the time).

I’m thinking now maybe I’ve done enough penance. Two weeks in a row? That was a lot, I think. OMG what if I’ve led Karen to believe that I mean to do this Every Week now? :bigyikes:

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita
I thought the “for thine is the kingdom…” at least in one Bible version I had, was noted that it was not “authentic” but was added by a monk to a manuscript “after the fact.”
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So here I come back to the Catholic Church, after having studied the Bible, and was surprised to see what appeared to be “inauthentic” passage from the Bible added to the Mass. That shocked me more than lifting the hands did.
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Does anybody know why this evidently non-Biblical phrase was added to the Mass? I’m hoping that since so many people debate this “hands lifting” thing that maybe somebody knows why that part of the Mass is even there. I’m not challenging it, just curious.
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First let me say that I always enjoy your posts. You are a great contributor to my understanding of many things. Let me try to return the favor.

One Sunday at Mass, our Associate Pastor who was trained in Rome and is real history buff gave a homily about the origin of the Mass. He began by talking about the fact that the Mass predates the Bible and then specifically sited certain things that while not in teh Bible are documented to have been part of the Mass prior to the Bible. I don’t know if the “for thine” section is one of them but it certainly might be and may be why/how this section got added to later manuscripts. He then concluded with a discussion on why the Church relies on Sacred Tradition and the authority of the Magisterium as also inspired by the Holy Spirit in addition to the Bible as both existed prior to the writing of the Bible.
 
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Madia:
Maybe this linke will help:
ewtn.com/expert/answers/holding_hands_at_mass.htm
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That is an interesting article, but keep in mind that it is an opinion just like anyone else’s and is not binding on anyone in any way. Numerous bishops have expressed opinions exactly to the opposite.

The only applicable part of that which is applicable to the discussion is the actual quotation of the Notitiae, which only addresses the issue of holding hands as a substitute for the sign of peace. There is no repudiation whatsoever in the document of holding hands itself.

The USCCB’s position on its website as of this morning is still that it has taken no position. As such it is up to an individual bishop to encourage, discourage, or take no position. To my knowledge, while some have encouraged and some have discouraged, no bishop has either mandated or forbidden the practice.

As such, one should check with one’s diocese to see what its position is. Regardless, one should act in charity in not attempting to force their preference on anyone else, or to judge them as more or less devoted because of it.

Peace,
 
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ncjohn:
To my knowledge, while some have encouraged and some have discouraged, no bishop has either mandated or forbidden the practice.
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From the Diocese of St. Louis website…
Is holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer allowed or encouraged?

BCL Newsletter, October-November 1989

No. The community’s corporate act of receiving communion is the primary symbol of unity with Christ and the Church. The Sign of Peace immediately preceding the reception of Communion is a liturgical rite that should not be minimized or duplicated in any way. A separate but related issue is the situation of individuals who for personal reasons feel uncomfortable with the practice of holding hands. In this case those individuals feel increasingly excluded from the worshipping community. Sensitivity is needed to include all and draw all to the true symbol of unity.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
From the Diocese of St. Louis website…
Is holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer allowed or encouraged?

BCL Newsletter, October-November 1989

No. The community’s corporate act of receiving communion is the primary symbol of unity with Christ and the Church. The Sign of Peace immediately preceding the reception of Communion is a liturgical rite that should not be minimized or duplicated in any way. A separate but related issue is the situation of individuals who for personal reasons feel uncomfortable with the practice of holding hands. In this case those individuals feel increasingly excluded from the worshipping community. Sensitivity is needed to include all and draw all to the true symbol of unity.
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Thanks for reminding me that that one Bishop has expressed his opinion for his diocese. 👍 I had forgotten that it was a straight out “no.” I had remembered it being just a strong discouragement. So there’s the answer for those of you in the St. Louis diocese.
 
My personal opinion is that I don’t like holding hands during the Our Father because it is too protestant. This prayer should be upwards, to God, not outwards as some “community” thing. Actually, I refuse to do it, and the only times I do is when I get someone that is the type that grabs your hand without bothering to care what you think. Kinda have to go along with that just because I don’t want to cause problems in the middle of Mass. We need to get rid of these feel-good inventions.
 
I also associate the “For Thine, etc” with Protestant prayer because when I was growing up, it was never said by Catholics, but my Protestant friends all knew it. If you read the Didache, which is a fascinating look at the early church, almost the exact prayer is there, but not connected to the Our Father.

I personally think it was added to make the Mass more palatable to Protestants, and that the rationale that it is an old part of the liturgy is not convincing since it could have been inserted somewhere else if it was such an improtant prayer in its own right.
 
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