Holding hands during the Our Father?

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When I was growing up, nobody did it. I think the first time I ever saw this was when I was a teenager in the early 90’s. Now it seems that half the people or more in every single church I go to do it. Who started this? And why? It feels a bit awkward and uncomfortable, but perhaps this is just because I’m still not used to it. Also, I’ve heard some on EWTN say that its wrong to do so. If so, where does it specifically say that its wrong to hold hands during the Our Father?

Also, is raising your hands as the priest does a similar new thing? I also never saw this practice until recently, and now it seems those that don’t hold hands raise them up mimicking the priest’s actions. Is this proper?

I’ve always just folded my hands in prayer.

I’ll post a poll along with this to get some additional feedback.

:blessyou:
 
I also just fold my hands and often bow my head.

I don’t like to raise my hands pesonally–it makes me feel awkward and actually sort of reminds me of a “fire and brimstone” evangelical, or something, church i went to as a young teen – before I came back to the catholic church. That church sort of creeped me out and was probably very instrumental in turning me away from christianity for some time. So, yea, I don’t usually raise my hands.

If someone tries to hold my hand I will hold theirs but I don’t usually initiate that either.
 
These gestures came out of the charismatic movement, but they are not found in the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal).

I see nothing wrong with holding hands with family members and perhaps friends, but the idea of whole rows of people reaching out to hold hands across aisles and other such abbreviations do nothing but distract from the altar upon which are resting the consecrated Host and Cup. And holding up of hands to mimic the priest is also not to be found in the GIRM, rather it is a violation by the people of a purely priestly role, and ought, therefore, to be discouraged.
 
Saint_Sinner said:
Della said “…holding up of hands to mimic the priest is also not to be found in the GIRM, rather it is a violation by the people of a purely priestly role, and ought, therefore, to be discouraged.”

I agree this really gets to me…http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/7.../7.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/7.gif

Isn’t this clearly forbidden in the GIRM???
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It isn’t mentioned in the GIRM, but then again belly dancing in the aisles isn’t mentioned either and we certainly don’t care to have that at Mass. :bigyikes:

The proper understanding of the GIRM is that whatever gestures are not designated to be done by either the priest, deacon, congregation and any others involved in the liturgy are not to be done. But, many people want to read it from the perspective that if it isn’t mentioned it must be all right to do, which is the wrong way to approach the directives of the GIRM.
 
I have never liked holding hands or the Orans Position. Maybe it is just personal, but I say, if the Church dosen’t tell you to, then don’t. Maybe I am to conservative, wait I am not to conservative, I am orthodox! What a wonderful idea! Who would have thought of that? May God bless each of you in your endeavours for holiness!
 
Della said:
The proper understanding of the GIRM is that whatever gestures are not designated to be done by either the priest, deacon, congregation and any others involved in the liturgy are not to be done.
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That’s what I meant by it being disallowed…sorry if I wasn’t clear. :o
 
Della said:
The proper understanding of the GIRM is that whatever gestures are not designated to be done by either the priest, deacon, congregation and any others involved in the liturgy are not to be done. But, many people want to read it from the perspective that if it isn’t mentioned it must be all right to do, which is the wrong way to approach the directives of the GIRM.
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That’s an interesting interpretation, but if that is true then we will all need to cut off our hands as NOTHING is designated for us to do with them at that time in the Mass.

Here is a link to the most recent rehashing of this topic, which is still an active thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=108989

Additionally, here is a link to a pastoral letter from Archbishop Chaput of Denver explaining the issue and the need for all to act in charity. archden.org/archbishop/docs/12_18_02_our_father_liturgy.htm
The Bishop in Saginaw has a similar statement that I can track down if anyone wants it. While these Bishops do not speak officially for the Church, what they say is in line with the USCCB’s statement that there is no prescribed position for the hands during the Our Father.

Peace,
 
I am the Audio/Visual Technician at the Mass that I attend, so I can’t really join hands with others, though I would without hesitation. Instead, I open my hands to God and pray in the orans position.
 
I am not a touchy feely person and while I don’t mind shaking hands during the sign of peace…I don’t really want to join hands for an extended period at the Our Father. I don’t mean to be unkind but I have a problem with people trying to grab my hand when I have them folded in front of me. If families want to do this…parents/children or husband/wife…fine…but dopn’t ask strangers to do the same. It is also the beginning fo the flu season and too many people go to Mass who are coughing and croaking. I don’t mean to offend anyone…but those are my opinions…

:heart:Blyss
 
ncjohn said:
That’s an interesting interpretation, but if that is true then we will all need to cut off our hands as NOTHING is designated for us to do with them at that time in the Mass.
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Nope. Since the GIRM says nothing about what the congregation is to do with their hands, as a common gesture, we should do nothing with them at all that denotes a common gesture everyone is expected to do, such as crossing ourselves.
Here is a link to the most recent rehashing of this topic, which is still an active thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=108989
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Yes, and I still disagree that these gestures are a legitimate part of the Mass, and the GIRM backs up my position, not their’s.
Additionally, here is a link to a pastoral letter from Archbishop Chaput of Denver explaining the issue and the need for all to act in charity. archden.org/archbishop/docs/12_18_02_our_father_liturgy.htm
The Bishop in Saginaw has a similar statement that I can track down if anyone wants it. While these Bishops do not speak officially for the Church, what they say is in line with the USCCB’s statement that there is no prescribed position for the hands during the Our Father.
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Peace,
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Of course one always ought to be charitable. I don’t run around my parish chastising people for holding hands with all and sundry nor for using the orans position. But, once again, that is not the point. The point is that these gestures are not what is prescribed for the congregation during the Our Father, therefore, they shouldn’t be done. It’s just that plain and simple.
 
Della said:
Nope. Since the GIRM says nothing about what the congregation is to do with their hands, as a common gesture, we should do nothing with them at all that denotes a common gesture everyone is expected to do, such as crossing ourselves.
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I agree with you to the extent that there should be no direction about what to do. Beyond that it is up to the individual since no position is prescribed.
Yes, and I still disagree that these gestures are a legitimate part of the Mass, and the GIRM backs up my position, not their’s.
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I would love to see where it does that, having read through it numerous times and found no such thing.
The point is that these gestures are not what is prescribed for the congregation during the Our Father, therefore, they shouldn’t be done. It’s just that plain and simple.
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What’s plain and simple is that “no position is prescribed.” You are free to adopt any prayerful position you like, as am I.

Peace,
 
ncjohn said:
Additionally, here is a link to a pastoral letter from Archbishop Chaput of Denver explaining the issue and the need for all to act in charity. archden.org/archbishop/docs/12_18_02_our_father_liturgy.htm
The Bishop in Saginaw has a similar statement that I can track down if anyone wants it. While these Bishops do not speak officially for the Church, what they say is in line with the USCCB’s statement that there is no prescribed position for the hands during the Our Father.

Peace,
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ncjohn:

I admire Archbishop Chaput for his staunch Pro-Life positions, so I will give this statement of his great respect as well. Another thought on this topic though: I think it’s obvious that this practice is distracting and annoying to many parishioners. Isn’t avoiding distraction one of the reasons that standardizing the Mass throughout the GERM is valuable? And if that is the case, perhaps the GERM should be updated to specifically ban these practices. They seem to be new additions to the Mass in recent years that have spread to most American parishes. Which brings me back to one of my original questions:

Anyone know how these practices started? And could my family and I start our own posture fad? Perhaps we could stand in the “Oran” position during the reading of the gospel or what about applauding after a good homily…does the GERM specifically ban that?:cool:

My own extended family has started using these new postures, so I certainly don’t feel uncharitable toward them because of it. Just a little confused as to why it was considered necessary or appropriate to add them.

Thanks for so many good responses.
 
I too long for a ‘unified’ posture simply because too many differences ARE distracting, and as has been amply bourne out in this and many other threads, contributes to dissention and ill feeling.

It just seems to me that the old familiar (until 30 years ago) posture of folded hands in prayer is better for several reasons.
  1. It does not involve lessening your focus on God to attend to your neighbor PHYSICALLY. I have no trouble focusing MENTALLY on my friends and family and ‘holding them up to God’ mentally. And I certainly can physically touch others ANY TIME outside of Mass.
  2. Between colds, flu, personal ‘space’ issues and physical issues (arthritis for example), ‘not’ holding hands is actually more comfortable for a great number of people. Again, Mass is what, 40 minutes to an hour or so–we are rational beings, we do not HAVE to be pressing the flesh 24/7, no matter how much we love our fellow man and woman. . .especially if we do considering that we have a pretty much 50/50 chance of having the stranger next to us feeling ‘uncomfortable’ with touch.
  3. We aren’t put into positions of wondering whether the man next to us is ‘grumpy’ for refusing to hold hands, or ‘pushy’ for wanting to hold hands, or ‘strange’ for doing the orans posture, or stodgy for NOT doing the posture. We shouldn’t judge but then again we should not be maneuvered into DISUNITED situations when the situation does not have to be such and in fact never WAS such until the current generation (i.e. 30 years ago).
P.S. IF the hierarchy were to decide that, well, there are enough people who want the hand holding and orans that they’ll make THOSE the mandatory postures, I will cheerfully obey. It is the unity after all which I hunger for.

And I’d like to think that those who are more comfortable with physical gestures would equally cheerfully submit to ‘folded hands’, if THAT were chosen as the posture of unity.
 
I always equate the orans posture with Muslims for some reason, maybe because they are the ones who use it most often. The exagerrated forms that some Catholicso use are actually kind of funny to look at,** touchdown!!!** To each his own though.

Handholding during the Our Father never really made any sense at all. It really doesn’t in any way show a sense of community or unity or anything else for that matter. I’ve done it before but it never really felt comfortable or the right thing to do. But again to each his own.
 
This seems to fit in with this discussion.

vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html#PREFACE

The Meaning of Norms
  1. In speaking of the instauratio of the liturgy, the Lineamenta responses returned again to the new Ordo Miss and The General Instruction on the Roman Missal, which treat the elements of the liturgy of the universal Church…
  2. Many responses to the Lineamenta cite various causes for the neglect of these norms: an insufficient knowledge of the history and theological meaning of the rites; a wish to be novel; and a distrust that ritual signs are capable of speaking to people. Some responses maintain that norms are not observed because of shortcomings in The General Instruction on the Roman Missal. For example, inadequate translations of liturgical texts and the lack of precision in the rubrics leave the celebrant at liberty to improvise certain parts. Some responses make specific reference to the need to take great care in translating liturgical texts by entrusting this challenging work to specialists, under the bishops’ supervision and with the approval of the competent congregation of the Holy See.
In teaching about norms or issuing them, a basic principle must be borne in mind: just as an over-estimation of the faithful’s formation could have contributed to practical difficulties in introducing liturgical reform, one must not under-estimate popular sentiment or the faithful’s capacity to accept an appeal to return to basic truths.

An Urgent Pastoral Program
  1. Generally speaking, the Lineamenta responses provide a picture of the shadows existent in the celebration of the Eucharist.
Where some liturgical rubrics are treated with mistrust, others seem to be adopted to provoke changes inspired by ideologies or theological misconceptions, not a few of which come from movements and groups seeking changes in the liturgy.
 
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