Holding Hands During the Our Father

[AlexV]

Bottom line is Jim’s posts clearly imply holding hands is indicative of community, which leads to the conclusion that those who don’t hold hands are refusing to be part of the community.

Whatever indeed.

 

[whatevergirl]

No offense, but is it really that big of a deal? I mean…if you wish to not hold hands, stay looking straight ahead, and don’t put your hand out–if you want to hold hands, make the extension, but if it isn’t greeted back likewise, then don’t get upset over it.

We should remember above all, to love our neighbor…and however you express that, is your choice.

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
Extending ones hand is Not an act of “kindness”. It is an extension of their own self desire. There is no “kindness” in putting another person in the position of denying the extended hand.

You able to read the heart of the person extending their hand to you?

Jim

---

Is the extending of the hand an unwilling action–outside of a persons control. We cannot read the heart --but we can read the act. You may have made yourself believe it is an act of “kindness” — a way to “connect” with the community or whatever else you want to attach to it — but what it really comes down to is this --there is no “kindness” in imposing yourself on another.

 

[DJgang]

Bottom line is Jim’s posts clearly imply holding hands is indicative of community, which leads to the conclusion that those who don’t hold hands are refusing to be part of the community.

Whatever indeed.

You know how when you meet someone, for the first time. You can tell if that person is a hand shaker…

BTW, Jim, my husband and I are business owners, I meet new people all the time, have to entertain as well. Meet people in our corporate’s office, etc, go on business trips…I don’t really see that I have a issue…I’m a very outgoing person…I just don’t like holding people’s hands…

okay, back to Alex…

I think at Church people can give the look over to the side and tell if someone wants to hold hands or not…for me, I keep my hands clasped and just look forward, or put my arm around my sons, etc.

I guess what I was trying to point out on this thread is by not taking notice of the individuals manner (not saying people are or aren’t) and extending your hand to the side, could very well be forcing someone.

Do we really think someone is going to make a scene and say “no” or look at you crazy when they don’t want to hold your hand? No, they will hold your hand and we really don’t know what’s going on inside their head…maybe you are forcing, maybe not…I think it’s just a touchy subject and everyone should be made aware that not everyone wants to hold hands. And it is not necessary at all at Mass.

I did watch a man the other day, he was at Mass with his daughter and grand children. The woman next to him grabbed his hand, I saw his whole body tense up.

Whatever, indeed.

 

[anamchara]

Don’t hold my hand out to a stranger, while at Mass, are you serious? Perhaps this stranger is lonely, or a new person in the parish, and wants to meet people. Why do we have to celebrate Mass as strangers, why not as friends?

I think it is gravely sad that people think the person next to them is just some stranger. How about a brother or sister in Christ? At my old Church, I knew just about everyone. I loved it. With the world we live in today, so many broken homes and dysfunction, we need God in our lives and the Church even more. The community helps us. Ideally, no one next to you should be a stranger. They are a brother or sister in Christ and you are there worshiping together. Perhaps I am putting my own template on this but it seems sad that people keep using the word stranger.

Jesus asked that we should love one another, as he has loved us.
I don’t know how this is possible, sitting in the church pew disassociating yourself with everyone around you.

Amen, you said it better. It’s Church for heavens sake. We are part of God’s family. Not an airport where we all just stand there staring up at our flight numbers. Now those people are strangers

 

[DJgang]

I think it is gravely sad that people think the person next to them is just some stranger. How about a brother or sister in Christ? At my old Church, I knew just about everyone. I loved it. With the world we live in today, so many broken homes and dysfunction, we need God in our lives and the Church even more. The community helps us. Ideally, no one next to you should be a stranger. They are a brother or sister in Christ and you are there worshiping together. Perhaps I am putting my own template on this but it seems sad that people keep using the word stranger.

Amen, you said it better. It’s Church for heavens sake. We are part of God’s family. Not an airport where we all just stand there staring up at our flight numbers. Now those people are strangers

Stranger = someone you do not know well…how’s that?

 

[anamchara]

Bottom line is Jim’s posts clearly imply holding hands is indicative of community, which leads to the conclusion that those who don’t hold hands are refusing to be part of the community.

Whatever indeed.

Alex, that is your conclusion, I don’t believe it’s Jim’s but I’ll let him defend himself.

I agree with some on here that it shouldn’t be forced. If someone is looking straight a head then we shouldn’t force our hand over to them. But please don’t make comments that suggest hand holding is an abuse or that those who are doing it are not focused on God. I see that all too often in here.

 

[pnewton]

Can not agree there at all. The “fact” is actually that He is OUR Father, not just yours or mine, and we can prayer to Him on our own too…This thinking is also what has been used to “change” the Creed. We now are told to say “We believe in God…” Blah!!! Credo has never meant “we believe”… It is “I” believe, pure and simple.

Good point about the Credo. I also thought of the penitential rite. Some things need to be remain personal. I don’t understand though that you do not agree. Are you saying that “our” is not plural? That is basic English. Are you saying that the plural is irrelevant? Yet you turn around and make a valid point as to the Credo based on the singular pronoun. The idea of balancing the communal and person aspect is not my idea. I would recommend Cardinal Ratzinger’s “Spirit of the Liturgy.” It give a balanced view of where we have come from and where we are.

 

[Walking_Home]

No offense, but is it really that big of a deal? I mean…if you wish to not hold hands, stay looking straight ahead, and don’t put your hand out–if you want to hold hands, make the extension, but if it isn’t greeted back likewise, then don’t get upset over it.

We should remember above all, to love our neighbor…and however you express that, is your choice.

---

It is not as easy as it sounds. Buried within another thread on this subject is an account of what happened to man that did not take the hand a woman extended to him. Because of this-- she would not acknowledge his hand at the sign of peace. After Mass, he approached the woman and tried to explain why he did not hold her hand. She rebuked his explanation and accused him of not holding her hand because of the color of her skin.

 

[MrS]

Am I missing something, or are we forbidden to greet or shake hands, or say “Peace of Christ” or whatever AFTER the Our Father… must it be joined with holding hands to be a heartfelt greeting to the “stranger” next to us?

At the next Easter Vigil I think we should all go around lighting everyones candle (not just the person next to us). This would REALLY show a sign of unity.
Spread that community as if you are the only one spreading it.

 

[MrS]

Good point about the Credo. I also thought of the penitential rite. Some things need to be remain personal. I don’t understand though that you do not agree. Are you saying that “our” is not plural? That is basic English. Are you saying that the plural is irrelevant? Yet you turn around and make a valid point as to the Credo based on the singular pronoun. The idea of balancing the communal and person aspect is not my idea. I would recommend Cardinal Ratzinger’s “Spirit of the Liturgy.” It give a balanced view of where we have come from and where we are.

Yes it is a plural word, because He is the Father of us all. Further in the prayer we ask for “our” daily bread. That does not imply that we all get the same thing nor even need the same thing…only that we all (each) received what we all (each) need from our (my) Father.

Additionally “…as we (each) forgive those who tresspass against us (me)…”

Additionally “… deliever us (individually) from evil”

I would shudder to think that any (all) of the requests we ask for will only be granted if granted to all.

Another thing to consider - before the Our Father, the priest says “…we dare to say…” and then comes to Our Father. We (each of us individuallly) should understand what it is we (individually) are really asking for.

Again, please enjoy the link to Fr Riccardo as posted above

.

 

[TMC]

The emotion on this topic never ceases to amaze me. We hold hands at my parish. For a time, I only held hands with my family members and did not extend my hand to the non-family person sitting on the other side of me. Why? Just felt a little uncomfortable holding hands with a ‘stranger’. No one ever ‘forced’ me to hold hands. If they held out a hand I just didn’t take it (some people do the ‘orens’ thing, so you can’t be sure they are holding out their hand to you anyway). At some point I started holding hands with whoever is there. I hold out my hand, if they don’t take it I put it down. No biggy.

I think this is like so many other areas where people disagree on ‘proper’ worship. Someone says it feels right, feels more like a loving and humble Church approaching God. Others say is feels wrong, feels like we are ‘horizontal’ when we should be ‘vertical’. Each accuses the other of putting personal feelings above right worship. I say everybody should just chill a bit. If the Church wants to do away with this practice, they know how to do that. If the Church want to mandate it, they are good at that, too. In the meantime, don’t take the hand if you don’t want to.

 

[whatevergirl]

---

It is not as easy as it sounds. Buried within another thread on this subject is an account of what happened to man that did not take the hand a woman extended to him. Because of this-- she would not acknowledge his hand at the sign of peace. After Mass, he approached the woman and tried to explain why he did not hold her hand. She rebuked his explanation and accused him of not holding her hand because of the color of her skin.

Wow–now that is something (offensive) that I had not thought of.

 

[childofmary1143]

I am greatly offended that a Liturgical Abuse (holding hands during the Our Father) is being defended as something good and if you don’t do it you are not being charitable.

 

[anamchara]

I am greatly offended that a Liturgical Abuse (holding hands during the Our Father) is being defended as something good and if you don’t do it you are not being charitable.

Oh Lord, we already went over this. As far as I can see it’s not an abuse. So far no one has come up with anything that claims it is with any real authority anyway.

 

[benedictgal]

Oh Lord, we already went over this. As far as I can see it’s not an abuse. So far no one has come up with anything that claims it is with any real authority anyway.

Actually, in 1975, it was listed as something that was not supposed to have been done. In fact, someone in another thread had quoted from a 1998 (or 88) article that listed Holding Hands as an abuse and the aurhor quoted the 1975 document.

Give me a chance to get home and I’ll try to dig it up.

 

[WitnessToHope]

The church does not instruct us to hold hands but how wonderful that the children feel so at home in the Fathers house that they have no problem holding hands during communal worship among family members. What makes you so uncomfortable that you grudgingly hold their hands ?

Hi PBP,
Before you think I’m Joan Crawford, the discomfort is not in holding my children’s hands. I hold their hands as we walk into the church and when we leave. Quite often my 3 year old sits on my lap during the Liturgy of the Word. However, once the Liturgy of the Eucharist begins I try to keep their attention on the priest and ultimately on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The entire Mass should be reverent but especially during consecration and on. My problem with holding hands is that the children are focusing on me, each other or their dad when their focus should be on speaking with God the Father in this prayer. Now obviously I’m not so concerned with my 3 year old but my 6 year old, who will turn 7 in a few months, will begin his formal prep for First Communion next fall. As a parent I’ve already begun his preparation. I’m trying to help him develop his relationship with God and guide him to an understanding of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. As it pertains to holding hands during the Our Father, there is simply no value to his spiritual development nor does it keep his mind focused on God. It’s a distraction. I want my son to know that the Our Father is between him and God. Folding his hands and keeping his eyes closed will keep his prayer directed to the Father and not worried about who is holding hands. I don’t mind being his center of attention most of the time, afterall I am a mother , but during Mass I want his focus on God, not me or anyone else. That’s where I’m coming from.

 

[benedictgal]

Hi PBP,
Before you think I’m Joan Crawford, the discomfort is not in holding my children’s hands. I hold their hands as we walk into the church and when we leave. Quite often my 3 year old sits on my lap during the Liturgy of the Word. However, once the Liturgy of the Eucharist begins I try to keep their attention on the priest and ultimately on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The entire Mass should be reverent but especially during consecration and on. My problem with holding hands is that the children are focusing on me, each other or their dad when their focus should be on speaking with God the Father in this prayer. Now obviously I’m not so concerned with my 3 year old but my 6 year old, who will turn 7 in a few months, will begin his formal prep for First Communion next fall. As a parent I’ve already begun his preparation. I’m trying to help him develop his relationship with God and guide him to an understanding of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. As it pertains to holding hands during the Our Father, there is simply no value to his spiritual development nor does it keep his mind focused on God. It’s a distraction. I want my son to know that the Our Father is between him and God. Folding his hands and keeping his eyes closed will keep his prayer directed to the Father and not worried about who is holding hands. I don’t mind being his center of attention most of the time, afterall I am a mother , but during Mass I want his focus on God, not me or anyone else. That’s where I’m coming from.

This is precisely why my father instructed the altar aervers (he is the parish altar server coordinator) to not hold hands during the Pater Noster. He’s trying to get the servers to lead by example. He told them that it is not necessary to hold hands. Plus, when they hold hands, they are usually looking all over the place and not concentrating on the prayer. When they keep their hands folded, they are actually praying. I know because when I’ve had to cantor, I can see them get focused.

By the way, my dad and I don’t even hold hands, nor did we at my mother’s funeral Mass (14 years ago this week) nor at my grandmother’s funeral Mass. My Dad’s a real stickler for following the norms and the rubrics, and, if it’s not in the Roman Missal, he’s not going to do it.

 

[ncjohn]

Actually, in 1975, it was listed as something that was not supposed to have been done. In fact, someone in another thread had quoted from a 1998 (or 88) article that listed Holding Hands as an abuse and the aurhor quoted the 1975 document.

Give me a chance to get home and I’ll try to dig it up.

There have been several authors who have tried to extend the 1975 Noticiae to also prohibit holding hands, but those are nothing more than opinions of those authors as the language of the Noticiae is clear on what it addresses, which is nothing more than the issue of using holding hands at the Our Father to substitute for the sign of peace. Holding hands itself was NOT “listed as something that was not supposed to have been done.”

To date nobody here has produced any document from an authoritative Vatican office that addresses the issue beyond that Noticiae. And the USCCB, to whom the authority to regulate such things was given, specifically commented when asked that there is no prescribed position for the hands at the Our Father.

While it is fine for people to prefer or abhor the practice, the “abuse” claims really need to stop as it is not any such thing. It is incumbent on all to be charitable in neither imposing their preferences in the matter on others or judging the piety or devotion of those who might have different preferences. Archbishop Chaput of Denver put out a very well-worded call for exactly that a while back that I’ll dig out if anyone wants to see it.

Peace,

 

[pnewton]

I understand the arguement from silence and I believe in being respectful to those who do not wish to hold hands.However, to sat the GIRM is totally silent is not entirely true. I came across this while looking for another answer. This is under the duties of the faithful:

usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter3.shtml

Thus, they are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have only one Father in heaven and accordingly are all brothers and sisters to each other.

1. Indeed, they form one body, whether by hearing the word of God, or by joining in the prayers and the singing, or above all by the common offering of Sacrifice and by a common partaking at the Lord’s table. This unity is beautifully apparent from the gestures and postures observed in common by the faithful.

1. The faithful, moreover, should not refuse to serve the People of God gladly whenever they are asked to perform some particular ministry or function in the celebration.

With this being said, I can not in good conscience be the one to fail to hold hands if all others are doing so. Fortunately I seldom have this as an issue as I am usually alone or just with my family.