Holding Hands During the Our Father

[jmdsc]

Oh Lord, we already went over this. As far as I can see it’s not an abuse. So far no one has come up with anything that claims it is with any real authority anyway.

I respectfully submit to you that while you claim that “no one has come up with anything that claims it is with any real authority anyway…” is possibly true, I can tell you that there is real authority pertaining to your choice of expression in your post (try Exodus chapter 20).

I am sure that many of us would be more comfortable, and more open to your thoughts if you chose to observe this particular “authority”.

 

[whatevergirl]

What would Jesus say about this, once we come before Him someday…I wonder if holdling hands is offensive to our Father in Heaven, or if this something we as mankind, are stuck on debating? (ranging from thinking it is an abuse, to just plain old not feeling comfortable with it) Would Jesus want us arguing with our fellow brothers and sisters in His name, on holding hands during the prayer that He gave to us? I don’t prefer it, but if a fellow parishioner, let’s say a person who is alone, reaches over for my hand…wouldn’t shaking my head no, or pretending to ignore the person seem more offensive from a faith standpoint, than merely holding this person’s hand?

Sometimes, I think we miss the mark, when we overanalyze these things.

 

[fix]

I understand the arguement from silence and I believe in being respectful to those who do not wish to hold hands.However, to sat the GIRM is totally silent is not entirely true. I came across this while looking for another answer. This is under the duties of the faithful:

usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter3.shtml

With this being said, I can not in good conscience be the one to fail to hold hands if all others are doing so. Fortunately I seldom have this as an issue as I am usually alone or just with my family.

Are you arguing hand holding applies to any of those quotes? Because if you are then it would be confusing. Hand holding is not part of the mass. It is something that has started without any approval. That said how would it be individualistic not to participate in something that has no authority in the first place?

 

[MrS]

I wonder if holdling hands is offensive to our Father in Heaven, or if this something we as mankind, are stuck on debating? (ranging from thinking it is an abuse, to just plain old not feeling comfortable with it) Would Jesus want us arguing with our fellow brothers and sisters in His name, on holding hands during the prayer that He gave to us?
…wouldn’t shaking my head no, or pretending to ignore the person seem more offensive from a faith standpoint, than merely holding this person’s hand?

Sometimes, I think we miss the mark, when we overanalyze these things.

You may be right. Rather than overanalyze why an occasional “stranger” happens to reach for my hand, I don’t pretend to ignore. I just ignore.

No argument with fellow brothers and sisters. And no reference to a like or dislike for what was started in the pews, not by the Church. I just ignore it.

No priestly Orans position and whether it is good or bad to be more social and less reverent. I just ignore it.

I just actively participate in the Mass as best I can while actively ignoring the so called “fellowship” coming from those whom I believe ( IMHO ) really don’t know why they should be at Mass.

Maybe someday a new scripture translation will read “…okay, I will teach you to pray. Now, first hold hands. Good. Now you can repeat after Me…”

nope… prayer should come from the mind and heart and be directed to God.

(and no, I don’t hold hands when saying the rosary in a group either )

.

 

[whatevergirl]

You may be right. Rather than overanalyze why an occasional “stranger” happens to reach for my hand, I don’t pretend to ignore. I just ignore.

No argument with fellow brothers and sisters. And no reference to a like or dislike for what was started in the pews, not by the Church. I just ignore it.

No priestly Orans position and whether it is good or bad to be more social and less reverent. I just ignore it.

I just actively participate in the Mass as best I can while actively ignoring the so called “fellowship” coming from those whom I believe ( IMHO ) really don’t know why they should be at Mass.

Maybe someday a new scripture translation will read “…okay, I will teach you to pray. Now, first hold hands. Good. Now you can repeat after Me…”

nope… prayer should come from the mind and heart and be directed to God.

(and no, I don’t hold hands when saying the rosary in a group either )

.

I’m not a proponent of holding hands, mainly because I am a germophobic person…sad to say. But, I’m just saying…mass is not a separate action to worship God, we worship God also by how we interact with our neighbor. I believe we will be judged on how we loved our neighbor, etc…rather than how we held or didn’t hold hands during the Our Father. That is NOT saying that is the only way we show love, lol. I know someone will say something about that statement! But, mass is not designed to isolate us from community…otherwise, why do we all come together for mass?

I have never heard about holding hands during a Rosary? That is new to me! ha

 

[whatevergirl]

I will say this though–should have put a PS on my above post…is that we run the danger of putting our neighbor’s feelings above that of why mass was created to begin with. The mass was created for us to worship Christ…to celebrate the institution of the Eucharist, and at the same time, be humbled by it. (We are not worthy to receive it, as we know) Mass wasn’t created to socialize, or make friends–although, that can be a healthy and beautiful byproduct. Rather, it was instituted, born out of the Last Supper if you will, to literally ‘do this is memory of Me.’ We were to lift up Christ, and to acknowledge His presence in our lives…thank Him for all that He has done, and to be cognizant that are mere sinners, totally not worthy of His body and blood we are about to partake of. That being said, yes, we are to love our neighbors, and be kind to them, but there is a slippery slope, where modern day mass is slowly turning into a feel good proposition, and that was not what it was designed to do. Again, feeling uplifted is a byproduct of mass–but not the reason we go. Not the reason it began.

When our neighbors’ feelings cause us to take our focus off Christ, that is not good, either.

 

[MrS]

I have never heard about holding hands during a Rosary? That is new to me! ha

Just me being a bit silly… wanted to see if anyone would suggest we hold hands during the Our Father…

 

[whatevergirl]

Just me being a bit silly… wanted to see if anyone would suggest we hold hands during the Our Father…

yeah, you being silly. lol

 

[catholic79]

Do you mean this:

Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

Or was it something else?

There was this and then:

All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.

And then something additional.

 

[benedictgal]

I think that we have all sidestracked from the OP. The bottom line is that the parents are the first teachers of the Faith to their children. If the OP wishes not to have her children hold hands during the Pater Noster, she is certainly within her rights.

Furthermore, a lot of people hold hands simply because they see other people in church doing the same. In fact, during weddings, the folks in the pews may not know when they are to sit, stand and kneel (or the appropriate verbal responses they are supposed to make), but, when the Pater Noster comes, everyone’s joining hands. The same holds true for funerals.

I would suggest that at the next Papal Mass broadcast (perhaps the one for Ash Wednesday), we make a careful observance (provided CTV is panning the faithful during the Pater Noster). Let’s see if anyone is holding hands at that point. In the Papal Masses I’ve seen, not even the cardinals who are in choir dress reach across their seats to hold hands (and, mind you, they are not there as celebrants). Not even the concelebrants or the acolytes up there with the Holy Father hold hands. It should be an interesting observation.

The bottom line is that is the parent’s call.

 

[BugiaMan]

There must be something broken when people expend so much energy debating things like holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, assuming or not assuming the orans position during prayer and the different postures.

You probably all know what is right. Just do it. Anticipate that someone might just grab your hand(s) during the Lord’s Prayer and have them under your chin before they try. If they try to tell you to assume the orans position or to stand when you should be kneeling (or to kneel when you should be standing), quietly and politely ignore them. Don’t make a big show out of it. They’ll leave you alone soon enough.

 

[DJgang]

There must be something broken when people expend so much energy debating things like holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, assuming or not assuming the orans position during prayer and the different postures.

You probably all know what is right. Just do it. Anticipate that someone might just grab your hand(s) during the Lord’s Prayer and have them under your chin before they try. If they try to tell you to assume the orans position or to stand when you should be kneeling (or to kneel when you should be standing), quietly and politely ignore them. Don’t make a big show out of it. They’ll leave you alone soon enough.

Not bad for your second post!

Welcome to the forum!

 

[BugiaMan]

Not bad for your second post!

Welcome to the forum!

I have read these forums for some time with great interest. Thanks.

 

[cmudd]

Why can’t we just do what the rubrics call for??? Why do we constantly have to deal with all of the innovations that come and go?

I remember when I was a kid at “Catholic School” and the teachers and the priest started encouraging this practice. It was so uncomfortable. And then when they asked the children to come up to the altar… what a distracting nuisance! I was still very young, I think in the 4th grade when I asked my dad if I could just stay in the pews with the family. …from the mouth of a babe… My parish has almost totally rid itself of the hand-holding; and with almost no prompting from the priest!

But it seems like every couple of years, there is some new little tweak that a priest or liturgist throws into the mix. Why do they always do it? I have to say, that over the last ten years, the trend has been toward traditional worship (in my experience). The 1960’s throwbacks are dwindling and the innovators are either leaving the Church they tried to wreck or they simply fade away into the shadows. But every now and again, one of them springs from the shadows wanting to dance interpretatively up the isles or break out with a little “Let it Be” or “Lean on Me.” It is a real bother, but it is slowly dying off. Thank God!!!

 

[BugiaMan]

Why can’t we just do what the rubrics call for??? Why do we constantly have to deal with all of the innovations that come and go?

I remember when I was a kid at “Catholic School” and the teachers and the priest started encouraging this practice. It was so uncomfortable. And then when they asked the children to come up to the altar… what a distracting nuisance! I was still very young, I think in the 4th grade when I asked my dad if I could just stay in the pews with the family. …from the mouth of a babe… My parish has almost totally rid itself of the hand-holding; and with almost no prompting from the priest!

But it seems like every couple of years, there is some new little tweak that a priest or liturgist throws into the mix. Why do they always do it? I have to say, that over the last ten years, the trend has been toward traditional worship (in my experience). The 1960’s throwbacks are dwindling and the innovators are either leaving the Church they tried to wreck or they simply fade away into the shadows. But every now and again, one of them springs from the shadows wanting to dance interpretatively up the isles or break out with a little “Let it Be” or “Lean on Me.” It is a real bother, but it is slowly dying off. Thank God!!!

Just do it. The resources spent on bemoaning what other people do is very troubling. If it’s something you cannot physically control, *ignore it *and pray that God brings a speedy solution.

 

[pnewton]

Why can’t we just do what the rubrics call for???

I agree.

Thus, they are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have only one Father in heaven and accordingly are all brothers and sisters to each other.

And yes, this does apply throught Mass. There is no part of the Mass that this attitude should not prevail. It is the duty of the faithful. I will always be respectful to the conviction of the one next to me if they decline, and in a Mass where some do and some do not hold hands, I will not hold hands. But I refuse to be the only one to not hold hands. You may call it peer pressure, but it is really how I read this instruction.

 

[cmudd]

Just do it. The resources spent on bemoaning what other people do is very troubling. If it’s something you cannot physically control, *ignore it *and pray that God brings a speedy solution.

Its just so hard to ignore a thirty something - who is not in the best physical shape - when she is twirling up the center aisle in a white unitard with a bowl of inscence in her arms, or when the lady next to me grasps at my hand **DURING **the Lord’s Prayer.

Why should I have to tell someone that I don’t want to hold their hand during a very private moment of prayer? Doesn’t that suggest something wrong with the whole endevour when it is optional, but, in order to opt out of the practice, I have to reject a sweety hand that is touching mine while I and he should both be deep in prayer???

I hate to bemoan anything that others do, but when it deemphasizes the sacred liturgy… I can get a little miffed/distracted…

 

[cmudd]

I agree.

And yes, this does apply throught Mass. There is no part of the Mass that this attitude should not prevail. It is the duty of the faithful. I will always be respectful to the conviction of the one next to me if they decline, and in a Mass where some do and some do not hold hands, I will not hold hands. But I refuse to be the only one to not hold hands. You may call it peer pressure, but it is really how I read this instruction.

What if everyone is taking the shirts off and swinging them through the air before they do cartwheels up the aisles? Should we follow suit then? Do you feel bad if you disrupt another’s private prayer to our Lord in order to hold their hand and it turns out that they don’t want to hold yours? The whole endevour is problematic. It is, at best, an ambiguous symbol anyway.

Like I wrote: “Can’t we just do what is in the rubrics?” BTW, anyone who follows the rubrics set out by the Church is in no way doing something wrong if he bucks the trend and creates division by not holding hands or kneeling when he should, etc… The fault lies with the innovators.

 

[pnewton]

What if everyone is taking the shirts off and swinging them through the air before they do cartwheels up the aisles?

Has this often happened at the Mass you attend?

I would cross anyother bridge when I came to it. Wild, unrealistic examples are not worth the effort. I totally agree we would all be better served just to follow the rubrics.

 

[cmudd]

Has this often happened at the Mass you attend?

I would cross anyother bridge when I came to it. Wild, unrealistic examples are not worth the effort. I totally agree we would all be better served just to follow the rubrics.

The unrealistic example is part of the point. The question, in and of itself, is more correctly understood in a philosphical context. If we are to avoid devision at all costs, what types of innovation are we to endure in the name of conformity?

To see some people taking their shirts off and dancing down the aisles, search Youtube for “Liturgical Dance” or “Liturgical Abuse.” You would be amazed!