Holding Hands & the Our Father

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Kopratic said:
I know a number of people who kneel for Communion – whether or not there are Communion rails. Really, it doesn’t draw that much attention – if any at all. I, personally, receive kneeling and have never gotten any strange looks or remarks about it. Most people aren’t really paying attention to how others receive. If someone does notice it, they’ll most likely forget by the time the prayer after Communion is said.

I know someone who, when he first decided to try kneeling for Communion, saw one other person receive kneeling; he said seeing that really helped. However, if you are still nervous, you could try finding a church nearby with Communion rails. There are some that still have them.
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There is no place of Catholic worship here with Communion rails. The only ones with Communion rails here are the Lutherans and the Anglicans.

This observation wouldn’t stop me from becoming Catholic. That has been what I have felt drawn to do for a long time, and ultimately the Catholic Church and its liturgy still teach and retain the sacrifice of the mass and transubstantiation which is what matters the most. But it is very weird to me that the only churches in town that kneel for Communion are the Protestants, and they don’t even believe in transubstantiation.
 
Merrick said:
But I am talking about holding hands with strangers. It is strangers that are holding my hand.
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Other Catholics in the pews are not strangers to me just because I don’t know their name.

To me, they are fellow members of Christ’s body whom I could be called by God to die for. The bond of brotherhood between baptized Christians is more real than the family bonds that we share in our earthly families because the bond of brotherhood between baptized Christians will continue in heaven while our relationships here on earth will end when we die.

Touch is one of the most intimate interactions people can have. It is a great privilege for someone to offer us their hand for us to hold. We should not be afraid of such intimacy between our fellow Christians in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

*We are to touch people with a deep respect – to touch them with tenderness. Our hands, and not just our voices, may become vehicles of the love of Jesus. The Word became flesh, that our flesh may become word. Our flesh, through the power of the Holy Spirit, can reveal to people their value – that they are cherished and loved by God.
  • Jean Varier*
-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Other Catholics in the pews are not strangers to me just because I don’t know their name.

To me, they are fellow members of Christ’s body whom I could be called by God to die for. The bond of brotherhood between baptized Christians is more real than the family bonds that we share in our earthly families because the bond of brotherhood between baptized Christians will continue in heaven while our relationships here on earth will end when we die.

Touch is one of the most intimate interactions people can have. It is a great privilege for someone to offer us their hand for us to hold. We should not be afraid of such intimacy between our fellow Christians in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

We are to touch people with a deep respect – to touch them with tenderness. Our hands, and not just our voices, may become vehicles of the love of Jesus. The Word became flesh, that our flesh may become word. Our flesh, through the power of the Holy Spirit, can reveal to people their value – that they are cherished and loved by God.
  • Jean Varier
-Tim-
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I see what you’re saying, but I already touch others at the passing of the peace when I shake their hand. I just want to do what is proper within the liturgy – it is not my own to fiddle with.
 
Merrick said:
I see what you’re saying, but I already touch others at the passing of the peace when I shake their hand. I just want to do what is proper within the liturgy – it is not my own to fiddle with.
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The sign of peace used to be a kiss of peace in the early Church. I think you are being too scrupulous about the whole thing. Others will disagree with me and say that it is abuse. 🤷

I hope you find what you are looking for in the Roman Catholic Church and look forward to reading about your conversion.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Other Catholics in the pews are not strangers to me just because I don’t know their name.

To me, they are fellow members of Christ’s body whom I could be called by God to die for. The bond of brotherhood between baptized Christians is more real than the family bonds that we share in our earthly families because the bond of brotherhood between baptized Christians will continue in heaven while our relationships here on earth will end when we die.

Touch is one of the most intimate interactions people can have. It is a great privilege for someone to offer us their hand for us to hold. We should not be afraid of such intimacy between our fellow Christians in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.

We are to touch people with a deep respect – to touch them with tenderness. Our hands, and not just our voices, may become vehicles of the love of Jesus. The Word became flesh, that our flesh may become word. Our flesh, through the power of the Holy Spirit, can reveal to people their value – that they are cherished and loved by God.
  • Jean Varier
-Tim-
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Merrick said:
I see what you’re saying, but I already touch others at the passing of the peace when I shake their hand. I just want to do what is proper within the liturgy – it is not my own to fiddle with.
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Good point, although Timothy brings up a good point too.

I still remember when the handshake of peace was introduced back in the 70’s. It was specifically intended to be exchanged with “strangers.” Thus it never made sense to me that the first people you shake hands with are people you do know. You can always shake or hold their hand, hug them, kiss them, whatever. Strangers, not so much.
 
ProVobis said:
Good point, although Timothy brings up a good point too.

I still remember when the handshake of peace was introduced back in the 70’s. It was specifically intended to be exchanged with “strangers.” Thus it never made sense to me that the first people you shake hands with are people you do know. You can always shake or hold their hand, hug them, kiss them, whatever. Strangers, not so much.
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There are sometimes of the year when people have diseases such as colds, flu, etc. What then, how is the sign of peace given at these times?:confused:
 
LegoGE1947 said:
There are sometimes of the year when people have diseases such as colds, flu, etc. What then, how is the sign of peace given at these times?:confused:
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Good point too. That’s why when you encounter those times you want to sit as far away as possible from everyone else and just give them a nod. 🙂
 
SighGuy said:
^Not sure if joking either, based on his post count, but to continue with the regular post I made…:
The hand and not the mouth is not liturgical abuse in the US. USCCB will tell you that much.

I don’t personally think it’s weird to hold hands with strangers- if anything I think it’s weird that people are so weirded out by it- but after learning that it was preferable not to do so I stopped.

It’s very simple. As soon as you stand up from kneeling, that is when the Our Father is about to begin. Bow your head, clasp your hands, close your eyes. Don’t allow time for someone to grasp for your hand and then you have to snatch it away and offend them since they didn’t know that holding hands is not prescribed.
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I may have a high post count and I may have been on CAF for a long time but there is quite a lot I am struggling with in the Faith. I was not born a Catholic. In fact my parents practiced no religion at all. I became a Non-catholic Christian at age 26 and became Catholic about 11 years ago at age 55. To this day I can’t really say what attracted me to the Catholic Church except I remember when my mom died a neighbor of hers, a Catholic lady, leaned over my mom’s coffin and made the Sign of the Cross. Somehow, that jesture “spoke” to me. 🤷
 
Holding hands at the Our Father is not liturgical “abuse” per se, although many things -could be- liturgical abuse depending on the context. The term “abuse” is hopelessly abused in the name of taste.
This is the best way to solve your problem:
 
bben15 said:
No, it is actually widespread liturgical abuse. Do not do it. Just hold your hands in a prayerful position.
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It may be described as an innovation but it is NOT a liturgical abuse.
For example, here in the Philippines the Conference of Bishops publicly declared that people are permitted to hold hands during the Our Father but are not required to.
Are you telling me that the Bishops Conference is supporting a liturgical abuse and thereby committing a sin?
 
clem456 said:
Holding hands at the Our Father is not liturgical “abuse” per se, although many things -could be- liturgical abuse depending on the context. The term “abuse” is hopelessly abused in the name of taste.
This is the best way to solve your problem:
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Very few behaviors could be less Christian.

Was intentionally causing someone pain to prove a point in the Baltimore Catechism, or was it Trent, or maybe some part of Vatican II?

I think you are full of bluster, a bunch of hot air with this post.

-Tim-
 
Orogeny said:
What is the prescribed posture that we must follow during the Lord’s Prayer and where in the GIRM can I find it?

Peace

Tim
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There isn’t one.

Catholics spend a lot of time discussing ways to avoid touching each other on these forums I have noticed. :rolleyes:
 
CB_Catholic said:
Catholics spend a lot of time discussing ways to avoid touching each other on these forums I have noticed. :rolleyes:
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I wouldn’t say it’s excessive.
  1. There is a time for everything,
    and a season for every activity under the heavens:
    2 a time to be born and a time to die,
    a time to plant and a time to uproot,
    3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
    a time to tear down and a time to build,
    4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
    a time to mourn and a time to dance,
    5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
    a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
    6 a time to search and a time to give up,
    a time to keep and a time to throw away,
    7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
    a time to be silent and a time to speak,
    8 a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace.
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Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
 
bben15 said:
No, it is actually widespread liturgical abuse. Do not do it. Just hold your hands in a prayerful position.
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Given that the GIRM does not address this I think to call it a liturgical abuse is a bit of an overstatement. The same people who rail against this practice will come here and defend their right to kneel in direct opposition to the norms stated in the GIRM (for the U.S.) and possibly to their bishops wishes–it makes you wonder. They want the GIRM more than rigidly applied with regards to the Our Father posture (I say more than because the GIRM is slient) and yet they want the GIRM losely applied, and argue for lattitude with regard to kneeling at other parts of the Mass where the GIRM is not silent and might call for standing.

The Peace of Christ,
Mark
 
Merrick said:
But I am talking about holding hands with strangers. It is strangers that are holding my hand.
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Are we really strangers? I thought we were all members of the family of God? That this is a real family bond and the we are brothers and sisters in Christ?

The peace of Christ,
Mark
 
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