Holding hands

  • Thread starter Thread starter jeff417
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jeff417

Guest
How has holding hands during the Our Father prayer caught on? Cannon Law forbids adding or subtracting from the liturgy and holding hands is not approved in the GIRM. Therefore, if it is not expressly forbidden, shouldn’t it at least be strongly discouraged?

Praise be to God.
 
This topic has been hashed around dozens of times here. You should be able to do a search and come up with lots of reading material.

Hopefully we won’t need to fight this battle again. 😦
 
Hi Jeff,

Since there is very little instruction for the congregation, the best general norm is probably uniform posture and gesture as a sign of our oneness in the Body of Christ.

People pray the rosary, and read other prayers, which is certainly not indicating that they are participating in the celebration, or even noticing what is going on. I don’t particularly like the holding hands, but our Pastor does encourage it, so I won’t refuse, if someone next to me extends their hand. I really dislike those chains or whatever that extend over pews and across aisles, so I try to steer clear of those.

The GIRM does discourage this in the instruction for the sign of peace-- it is a symbolic gesture offered to those near us.

Since there is no specific instruction, I personally wouldn’t make a issue of it. I would keep my hands folded, if it was a problem for me, and find another parish, if it was really forced on me by too many people.

Lux
 
We’ve been to mass at five or six parishes in this archdiocese and a couple of the neighboring diocese. Hand-holding during the Our Father was done at every one of those parishes except for the TLM. At one parish (but only one, thankfully), the congregation was extremely aggressive about it, with many people reaching across aisle and behind them and in front of them, and I the person next to me was insistently trying to grab my hand even though I obviously had it folded. That parish is actually the one that is geographically closest to us, but this experience, combined with other strange things we experienced just at the one mass we attended, ensured we’d never go back. The people at my home parish don’t do that, and there are a lot of people there who don’t hold hands at all, and nobody seems to mind. That’s how it should be, IMO, if the hand-holding has to happen at all.
 
Here are a few threads you can look at. I’m not sure there’s anything to say that hasn’t been covered in one of these:

Official document on hand holding during Our Father (20 posts; last post 5/28/08)
Physically assaulted during Mass (22 posts; last post 5/21/08; closed)
Holding hands during the Our Father (89 posts; last post 2/5/08)
Do you like holding hands during the Our Father at Mass? (103 posts; last post 2/1/08; closed)
Holding hands during the Our Father (102 posts; last post 1/8/08)
Once again, holding hands (22 posts; last post 2/24/07)
Holding hands during Our Father (70 posts; last post 2/17/07)
 
Hey, let’s argue about and get it banned again! 😃

Just kidding.

I’ve seen it around for at least 20 years.
 
My parish does hand holding during our Father. Once or twice I’ve been stuck next to a very insistent person who simply had to hold my hand. That experience has lead me to find the section of the church that doesn’t.

The last 5 pews are the “safe” zone. There is enough distance between everyone (usually singles) that holding hands is not a viable option without a drastic move. So we don’t hold hands. We’re all very happy about that. The front of the church can shake hands, hug, and get cosy during the sign of the peace and the our father. The anti-socialists are quite happy just nodding and smiling at each other at the back. A perfect balance.
 
Rachel_J said:
My parish does hand holding during our Father. Once or twice I’ve been stuck next to a very insistent person who simply had to hold my hand. That experience has lead me to find the section of the church that doesn’t.

The last 5 pews are the “safe” zone. There is enough distance between everyone (usually singles) that holding hands is not a viable option without a drastic move. So we don’t hold hands. We’re all very happy about that. The front of the church can shake hands, hug, and get cosy during the sign of the peace and the our father. The anti-socialists are quite happy just nodding and smiling at each other at the back. A perfect balance.
Click to expand...
Until your priest chews you all out and insists you move up closer. Don’t you just hate when they do that? 🙂
 
The strangest thing happened over the weekend. A friend of mine was going to celebrate Mass and preach at a neighboring parish. The pastor went on vacation and he would be filling in for the duration. My dad and I went.

Needless to say, everything went downhill. There was a commentator who was introducing everyone as though they were the cast in a play (my friend seemed happy that he wasn’t introduced). The reader processed in with the lectinoary and placed it on the altar as though it were the book of the Gospels.

To be quite frank with you, the commentator was annoying. I don’t think that we need to be told what the readings are about. That is why the celebrant preaches a homily. After a while, even my friend look annoyed.

Now here comes the interesting part. Unbeknownst to him, when the time came for the Pater Noster, the altar servers, the commentator, the reader and the EMHCs gathered around the altar as though they were concelebrants and held hands, raising them in the process.:bigyikes: One of the EMHCs tried to grab his hand, but, the celebrant moved to the point where I think they got the hint. Nonetheless, he didn’t look too happy.

Then, it came time for the Agnus Dei. The EMHCs tried to come close to him on either side, again, as though they were concelebrants.:bigyikes: He made a signal for them to pull away. :tsktsk: They kept wanting to come near. He finally told them to move and stand back, away from the altar.

I feel sorry for him. He probably should have been warned. But, the priest he is filling in for tends to get creative, and that makes it hard for a visiting priest who is trying to do things the right way.

It is interesting to note that in another parish, the pastor took the provrrbial bull by the horns and has banned hand-holding during the Pater Noster. He said that since it is not part of the rubrics for the Mass, it should not be done and will not be done in his parish. 👍 :extrahappy:
 
Great post. Sad to hear that all that happened. Guess the visiting priest should have been warned. And about creativity: what’s up with that? Don’t get creative in our Church. We have our rules and let’s follow them! C’mon! 👍
 
mom4truth said:
Great post. Sad to hear that all that happened. Guess the visiting priest should have been warned. And about creativity: what’s up with that? Don’t get creative in our Church. We have our rules and let’s follow them! C’mon! 👍
Click to expand...
And the sad thing is that the visiting priest cares a lot about celebrating the Mass correctly. My dad was flabergasted by what he saw. He said that my friend looked fit to be tied.

Now, I realize that you just can’t go in and clean someone else’s parish, but, I think, based on what I saw (the music was also horrendous), it will take more than a liturgical Martha Stewart to do some major housecleaning. It’s as though his hands were tied. However, knowing him the way I do, I think that maybe next week, there will be some gentle changes. I know that he can’t get rid of the commentator, but, maybe the handholding will stop.

I think he got perturbed because just as he was ready to proclaim the Gospel, the commentator burst in with her lines.
 
While it may have achieved his desired result, at least for some, it is just as illicit for the priest to “ban” the holding of hands as it would be for him to demand it or instigate it. That is outside his authority and a faulty interpretation of the rubrics.

I’m truly hoping this won’t devolve into yet another debate on either “good thing vs bad thing” or the many personal interpretations of how people wish the rubrics addressed the topic, but in the end it is up to the conferences of bishops to determine such things, with approval of the Holy See, and our conference has clearly stated that there is no prescribed position for the hands at the Our Father. Priests don’t get to overrule that, nor do liturgical directors or other third parties get to instigate or direct it. The rubrics are pretty clear, however, by directing how the priest’s hands are to be held, that he should not be participating.

In the end it becomes a matter of charity in not imposing one’s preference in the matter on anyone else, nor judging their devotion or piety for that choice. When that charity begins to be lost in either direction, the priest should certainly be reminding people of it so as to preclude distraction.

BTW though, I fully agree that all that gathering around the altar stuff is clearly outside the rubrics and should be halted.

Peace,
 
ncjohn said:
While it may have achieved his desired result, at least for some, it is just as illicit for the priest to “ban” the holding of hands as it would be for him to demand it or instigate it. That is outside his authority and a faulty interpretation of the rubrics.

I’m truly hoping this won’t devolve into yet another debate on either “good thing vs bad thing” or the many personal interpretations of how people wish the rubrics addressed the topic, but in the end it is up to the conferences of bishops to determine such things, with approval of the Holy See, and our conference has clearly stated that there is no prescribed position for the hands at the Our Father. Priests don’t get to overrule that, nor do liturgical directors or other third parties get to instigate or direct it. The rubrics are pretty clear, however, by directing how the priest’s hands are to be held, that he should not be participating.

In the end it becomes a matter of charity in not imposing one’s preference in the matter on anyone else, nor judging their devotion or piety for that choice. When that charity begins to be lost in either direction, the priest should certainly be reminding people of it so as to preclude distraction.

BTW though, I fully agree that all that gathering around the altar stuff is clearly outside the rubrics and should be halted.

Peace,
Click to expand...
Actually, the priest acted in the correct manner. Somone took it upon himself to introduce something into the Mass that doesn’T belong there. If a gesture is not in the rubrics, it shouldn’t be used. He is acting in a manner that safeguards the integrity of the Mass.

So, are you saying that you would support a priest who comes down off the altar, stands in the center aisle and tells everyone to hold hands? I’ve seen this done in my old parish in Austin. This is wrong. The celebrant had no right to insert something into the Mass that does not belong there.

Furthermore, creativity only comes into play regarding the texts of the readings and the propers of the Mass. A celebrant for daily Mass certainly has the options to use whatever texts the Church provides. However, when it comes to something that amounts to a personal idiosyncracy like hand-holding during the Pater Noster, he certainly has the right to stop a liturgically inappropriate posture from being used in the Mass where he is the celebrant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top