Holding hands

[ncjohn]

Some people get the notion that those who are ‘uncomfortable’ with handholding are standoffish, snobby elitists who think they’re more Catholic than the Pope.

I agree totally with you here. It upsets me to no end that people make any kind of judgments about each other based on this regardless of which preference one has. There are any number of valid reasons why someone would prefer not to participate and no one should even have to think about having to explain themselves over it.

I can’t help but feel that there was a good reason that this gesture never existed throughout most of liturgical history.

Yes, there is a good reason. It wasn’t until the Pauline Mass that the people recited the prayer. In the TLM it is said by the priest. Holding hands tracks almost exactly the change, as several people have noted remembering seeing this showing up in the late 60’s.

Physical distress. . .emotional distress. . . maybe they aren’t the ‘normal’ response that ‘you’ would feel, maybe it’s hard to put yourself into our shoes. . .but aren’t you supposed to consider our needs as much as we’re supposed to consider yours --and if there is a ‘conflict’, aren’t we supposed to try to work things out and not just be shunted aside with “majority rules-- like it or lump it?”

Again, you are absolutely correct. Parish “cultures” will tend to lean in one direction or the other, but that doesn’t mean that anyone should have to refrain or join in simply because “everybody else does”.

I truly am sorry for all of those who experience any kind of pain or discomfort because of an inconsiderate neighbor. I’ve been on the receiving end of that enough times myself, being referred to as a “touchy feely liberal”, to know that the undeserved judgments are out there. Unfortunately we live in a world filled with sinful tendencies and we sometimes treat each other in horrible ways, even when we don’t mean to.

Peace,

 

[nerddad]

Bishop Peter Elliott, in his book, The Liturgical Question Box, notes that this posture doesn’t really convey much. He said that if you were to stand back and look at it objectively, it looks silly.

in our parish, the hand-holding has been replaced by mimicking the celebrant’s hand gestures…i often think, what would a newcomer
observing the Mass at that point think? would they compare it to the “Planet of the Apes” service praying to the bomb?

 

[BSHoop96]

The strangest thing happened over the weekend. A friend of mine was going to celebrate Mass and preach at a neighboring parish. The pastor went on vacation and he would be filling in for the duration. My dad and I went.

Needless to say, everything went downhill. There was a commentator who was introducing everyone as though they were the cast in a play (my friend seemed happy that he wasn’t introduced). The reader processed in with the lectinoary and placed it on the altar as though it were the book of the Gospels.

To be quite frank with you, the commentator was annoying. I don’t think that we need to be told what the readings are about. That is why the celebrant preaches a homily. After a while, even my friend look annoyed.

Now here comes the interesting part. Unbeknownst to him, when the time came for the Pater Noster, the altar servers, the commentator, the reader and the EMHCs gathered around the altar as though they were concelebrants and held hands, raising them in the process.:bigyikes: One of the EMHCs tried to grab his hand, but, the celebrant moved to the point where I think they got the hint. Nonetheless, he didn’t look too happy.

Then, it came time for the Agnus Dei. The EMHCs tried to come close to him on either side, again, as though they were concelebrants.:bigyikes: He made a signal for them to pull away. :tsktsk: They kept wanting to come near. He finally told them to move and stand back, away from the altar.

I feel sorry for him. He probably should have been warned. But, the priest he is filling in for tends to get creative, and that makes it hard for a visiting priest who is trying to do things the right way.

It is interesting to note that in another parish, the pastor took the provrrbial bull by the horns and has banned hand-holding during the Pater Noster. He said that since it is not part of the rubrics for the Mass, it should not be done and will not be done in his parish. :extrahappy:

OH MY GOSH! When it was over was he annoyed??? Were the people annoyed??? Wonder if he will celebrate there again. Who decides those things?

 

[BSHoop96]

And the sad thing is that the visiting priest cares a lot about celebrating the Mass correctly. My dad was flabergasted by what he saw. He said that my friend looked fit to be tied.

Now, I realize that you just can’t go in and clean someone else’s parish, but, I think, based on what I saw (the music was also horrendous), it will take more than a liturgical Martha Stewart to do some major housecleaning. It’s as though his hands were tied. However, knowing him the way I do, I think that maybe next week, there will be some gentle changes. I know that he can’t get rid of the commentator, but, maybe the handholding will stop.

I think he got perturbed because just as he was ready to proclaim the Gospel, the commentator burst in with her lines.

Would he not have the right to tell the commentator “no” at the Mass he was celebrating.

I do enjoy reading the commentary in my Missal before Mass starts but sure wouldn’t want a “commentator.”

 

[benedictgal]

OH MY GOSH! When it was over was he annoyed??? Were the people annoyed??? Wonder if he will celebrate there again. Who decides those things?

He is stuck there for three more weekends. He was annoyed beyond belief. The people were quite placid about the whole thing, though.

 

[JButky]

FWIW…

Fr. McNamara has addressed just about all the concerns everyone has brought forth in this discussion.

zenit.org/article-8728?l=english

Joe B

 

[DF2]

How has holding hands during the Our Father prayer caught on? Canon Law forbids adding or subtracting from the liturgy and holding hands is not approved in the GIRM. Therefore, if it is not expressly forbidden, shouldn’t it at least be strongly discouraged?

Praise be to God.

You are correct. Here’s an article I found:

(Ooops see previous poster’s link from Zenit. It was the one I was thinking of. No need for duplication.)

Can liturgy be revised by peer pressure?

Canon law prohibits us from introducing new elements and rites into the liturgy: “The liturgical books approved by the competent authority are to be faithfully observed in the celebration of the sacraments; therefore, no one on personal authority may add, remove, or change anything in them” (CIC 846, para. 1)

The more successful the introduction of a personal innovation, the better the case for a violation of the above canon.

People should also consider that they are deceiving many others when they hold hands in this context. Many average Joe Catholics may wrongly get the idea that the liturgy has been revised. This makes them more likely to spread this personal, unauthorized liturgical addition thinking that it’s the right thing to do.

 

[BSHoop96]

He is stuck there for three more weekends. He was annoyed beyond belief. The people were quite placid about the whole thing, though.

I didn’t phrase that very well. I was wondering if the people he tried to quietly correct on the altar got upset about it?

The EMHC’s at our parish cannot approach the altar until the priest consumes, btw.

 

[benedictgal]

I didn’t phrase that very well. I was wondering if the people he tried to quietly correct on the altar got upset about it?

The EMHC’s at our parish cannot approach the altar until the priest consumes, btw.

And I didn’t answer very well. Sorry.

I think they were surprised, but, not upset. He was also disturbed that the EMHC approached the Tabernacle to retrieve the ciboriium. After communion, my friend placed the ciborrium back into the Tabernacle.

I’m hoping that things will get better next week. I think that he probably has the Pater Noster hand holding nipped in the bud, for now.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please stick with the OP’s topic, everyone. You can take side discussions to new or existing threads. Thank you all.

 

[BSHoop96]

Please stick with the OP’s topic, everyone. You can take side discussions to new or existing threads. Thank you all.

Whoops! Sorry.