Holding hands

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“No gesture for the people during the Lord’s Prayer is mentioned in the official documents.”

Right. There is no gesture specified. Holding hands is not prohibited.
It is more complicated than this. First of all you have the reasoning backward. If it isn’t specified than it isn’t approved. It would be impossible to list all the things you can’t do. That is why the Church states only what can be done. However, in this particular point, nothing is proscribed. There is nothing wrong with holding a family member’s hand. The problem comes when the priest holds the altar servers hand. The GIRM says he should be in the orans position. It does not say for the whole congregation to join hands. It is contrary to the sign of peace being offered immediately afterwards. It is not proscribed in the GIRM. It is when the whole congregation holds hands that it becomes a community action and prohibited by the GIRM.
 
I should qualify my previous statements by saying that while I find it inappropriate to hold hands during the Mass for the reasons I stated, it should not be considered illicit or disobedient to do. The problem arises when the congregation is invited or required to do so, this is wrong. Here is Fr. Z’s blog about this:

wdtprs.com/blog/2011/05/quaeritur-our-father-hand-holding-fr-z-rants/
There is no specific prohibition against holding hands during the Our Father, or any other time at Mass for that matter. However, there is no provision to ask or invite people to do so, and** were a priest or deacon to do so during Mass he would be committing a grave liturgical abuse**. Priests can’t just make stuff up and impose things because they think it is meaningful.
So if you want to hold hands fine, but please don’t grab my hand if I don’t extend it to you.
 
So if you want to hold hands fine, but please don’t grab my hand if I don’t extend it to you.
👍 If someone extends their hand to me, I take it. To me it’s just good manners and I’d never want to make my brothers and sisters in Christ feel uncomfortable, especially during Mass when we are all united in Christ more deeply and fully then elsewhere in this life.
 
You obviously missed my point. The Laity are not the Priest obviously, yet they want to make the same gestures the Priest is making. The deacon has actually received Holy Orders and yet he does not make any of the gestures the Priest makes. Proving the point that all of the gestures the Laity make are not correct.
No, I got your point. I was simply stateing what deacons should do at this time as I serve with many deacons who use the gesture of the priest celebrant which is improper. I didn’t think I was disagreeing with you. 🙂
 
I have found that people tend to pick up the gestures of the preist. that is were the raising of hands into the air comes from and non of our preist have bothered to correct them. As for the Hand holding I do not do it and I have found that when time for the Our Father I bow my head close my eyes and fold my hands infront of me no one will grab my hand I am starting to see less of both of these in my parish.

One person can start or stop a trend.
 
No, I got your point. I was simply stateing what deacons should do at this time as I serve with many deacons who use the gesture of the priest celebrant which is improper. I didn’t think I was disagreeing with you. 🙂
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
👍 If someone extends their hand to me, I take it. To me it’s just good manners and I’d never want to make my brothers and sisters in Christ feel uncomfortable, especially during Mass when we are all united in Christ more deeply and fully then elsewhere in this life.
Your choice is fine (for you) but I disagree that it’s ‘just good manners’ to take a hand. There are those of us who have legitimate issues and would suffer physically or mentally ‘just taking a hand’ (people with arthritis, people with compromised immune systems, people suffering from various mental disorders/neuroses/psychoses) and we don’t exactly look ‘different’ from anybody else nor are we wearing placards, “Warning! Chemotherapy patient!” “Caution --person with rheumatoid arthritis or gouty flares”, “Alert–patient suffering from PTSD and OCD”.

You know what I would like? I would like it very much if, the next time a person ‘reached out’ (and I’m sure it is with friendly and worthwhile intent) and the person he was reaching out to just smiled, shook his/her head slightly, and either held up a hand in a ‘stop’ gesture or simply just kept his/her hands to himself. . .that BOTH people would accept this as ‘good manners’, not judge each other, and continue on with Mass. . .

IOW, person A (hand holder) will not stigmatize person B (non hand holder) as ill-mannered, rude, antisocial and haughty. . .

and person B (non hand holder) will not stigmatize person A (hand holder) as ill-mannered, rude, pushy and haughty. . .
 
Actually i don’t know when it started.But its been within the last 20yrs or so.At first i found it strange but since so many people in my parish do it Ive just gotten used to it.Its strictly nnorvus ordo as far as I know.I guess some people felt like they were copying the priest so they just picked it up and then it kind of spread.
 
Holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer just does not make sense from a liturgical standpoint. As the liturgy moves we grow deeper and deeper in intimacy. We begin by acknowledging our sins and then acknowledging God in His glory. The whole liturgy is meant to move us to deeper intimacy. The sign of peace (in past known as the kiss of peace) is the intimacy between us as brothers and sisters in Christ (lateral intimacy). This is just before we reach the pinnacle of intimacy of receiving Jesus Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (vertical intimacy). In most cultures, especially western (Roman), holding hands is more intimate than a handshake (sign of peace). So in essence by holding hands at the Lord’s prayer just before the sign of peace, we are going from more intimate (holding hands) to less intimate (handshake/sign of peace). We should never move backwards in the liturgy, but move ever forward to the source and summit of intimacy, Jesus in the Eucharist.
 
Holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer just does not make sense from a liturgical standpoint. As the liturgy moves we grow deeper and deeper in intimacy. We begin by acknowledging our sins and then acknowledging God in His glory. The whole liturgy is meant to move us to deeper intimacy. The sign of peace (in past known as the kiss of peace) is the intimacy between us as brothers and sisters in Christ (lateral intimacy). This is just before we reach the pinnacle of intimacy of receiving Jesus Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (vertical intimacy). In most cultures, especially western (Roman), holding hands is more intimate than a handshake (sign of peace). So in essence by holding hands at the Lord’s prayer just before the sign of peace, we are going from more intimate (holding hands) to less intimate (handshake/sign of peace). We should never move backwards in the liturgy, but move ever forward to the source and summit of intimacy, Jesus in the Eucharist.
This is the best explanation that I have ever seen.👍👍
 
Holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer just does not make sense from a liturgical standpoint. As the liturgy moves we grow deeper and deeper in intimacy. We begin by acknowledging our sins and then acknowledging God in His glory. The whole liturgy is meant to move us to deeper intimacy. The sign of peace (in past known as the kiss of peace) is the intimacy between us as brothers and sisters in Christ (lateral intimacy). This is just before we reach the pinnacle of intimacy of receiving Jesus Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (vertical intimacy). In most cultures, especially western (Roman), holding hands is more intimate than a handshake (sign of peace). So in essence by holding hands at the Lord’s prayer just before the sign of peace, we are going from more intimate (holding hands) to less intimate (handshake/sign of peace). We should never move backwards in the liturgy, but move ever forward to the source and summit of intimacy, Jesus in the Eucharist.
Thank you for sharing this - I had never noticed nor been taught this in all my years as a Catholic and wish I had. It’s really a lovely thing, and I will be particularly attentive to it at Mass this week.
 
By the same logic dancing a jig is not prohibited.
Dancing in the Mass is prohibited.
That argument is terrible. There are millions of things not prohibited, that does not make them ok to do.
But in the case of what to do with one’s hands during the Our Father, there is no approved posture, so everyone must make a prudential judgment on what to do with his hands. The point is that it is your personal, prudential judgment that holding hands during the Our Father is inappropriate; it is not any instruction from the Church. You can hold believe that it is inappropriate, but you cannot appeal to any authority higher than your own reason for that position.
It is more complicated than this. First of all you have the reasoning backward. If it isn’t specified than it isn’t approved. It would be impossible to list all the things you can’t do. That is why the Church states only what can be done. However, in this particular point, nothing is proscribed. There is nothing wrong with holding a family member’s hand.
This is just the point: no hand posture is specified. But the laypeople have to do something with their hands; the only way they could avoid doing something not specifically approved in the documents is by having no hands. So in this case we clearly can’t say “everything not specifically approved is not allowed,” because there is no approved posture.
The problem comes when the priest holds the altar servers hand. The GIRM says he should be in the orans position.
Agreed.
It does not say for the whole congregation to join hands. It is not proscribed in the GIRM. It is when the whole congregation holds hands that it becomes a community action and prohibited by the GIRM.
If every layperson in the congregation decides to hold hands, why does that make it illicit, when it is not ilicit if only some laypeople decide to hold hands?
It is contrary to the sign of peace being offered immediately afterwards.
Holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer just does not make sense from a liturgical standpoint. As the liturgy moves we grow deeper and deeper in intimacy. We begin by acknowledging our sins and then acknowledging God in His glory. The whole liturgy is meant to move us to deeper intimacy. The sign of peace (in past known as the kiss of peace) is the intimacy between us as brothers and sisters in Christ (lateral intimacy). This is just before we reach the pinnacle of intimacy of receiving Jesus Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity (vertical intimacy). In most cultures, especially western (Roman), holding hands is more intimate than a handshake (sign of peace). So in essence by holding hands at the Lord’s prayer just before the sign of peace, we are going from more intimate (holding hands) to less intimate (handshake/sign of peace). We should never move backwards in the liturgy, but move ever forward to the source and summit of intimacy, Jesus in the Eucharist.
These are just the sort of arguments that I find unconvincing. If we need to move farther and farther into intimacy with our brothers and sisters during the Mass, then why do we reach the pinnacle of that horizontal intimacy at the sign of peace, a Mass part so nonessential that individual priests can choose to omit it? Under that logic we should be hugging or kissing our fellow congregants right around the time of the reception of the Eucharist, as that’s the personal high point of the Mass. Or why should we say the problem lies in holding hands during the Our Father; perhaps the best way to ensure the intimacy keeps growing lies rather in hugging and kissing during the sign of peace instead of just shaking hands!

But that really isn’t the point. Perhaps I’m wrong and the above argument does prove that holding hands at the sign of peace is a bad idea. The point is, that is a person prudential judgment based on human reason; it is not a discipline of the Church. Catholics are free to hold hands during the Our Father if they judge it to be appropriate. It is not illicit.

I personally dislike the practice and think it’s a bad idea on practical grounds, and I do find it rude if someone tries to force another to hold hands if the latter doesn’t want to. But that is my prudential judgment; it’s possible that it’s wrong. The Church does not say.
 
Hand holding at Mass, particularly during the Our Father, came out of the Charismatic Movement of the 1970s which borrowed heavily from Pentecostal-style worship.

The thinking behind this practice goes something like this:

People complain that there is no sense of community at Mass. Hand holding helps people “feel” connected, not just figuratively, but physically as well, leading to an uplifting emotional experience of togetherness.

I’ve heard some describe those occasions in these terms, “I got teary-eyed during the Our Father…you could just feel the Spirit moving through the congregation.”

Not necessarily a bad thing, but certainly a more emotional-based action.
 
I believe the raising of hands is supposed to be a priestly gesture, and with that in mind we should not liken ourselves to priests as a form of respect. In a way it corresponds with the abuse of the Eucharist when those who receive it receive it in their hands.

Also, what exactly is raising our hands during this time signifying? [Other than, “Look at me! I’m doing what the priest is doing!”] So, in my opinion, we should show just a little self control and humbly keep our hands folded rather than acting like Ana-baptists in a Catholic church.
 
Thankfully in our small church in Normandy the priest leads us all up to the steps of the altar, to calvary, to be present at the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, sung each Sunday in the Tridentine Rite, and no we aren’t SPPX, just your average Catholic sinners.
I’ve said this so many times now, at the consecration if a person could really see what was in front of their eyes they would be on their knees, head bowed down and hopefully hands clasped in fervent prayer. Somehow that moment and from there to the end of communion should be one of interior preparation for receiving the Most Pure Body and Most Precious Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are not Protestants, we are Catholics, Behave like Catholics.
 

These are just the sort of arguments that I find unconvincing. If we need to move farther and farther into intimacy with our brothers and sisters during the Mass, then why do we reach the pinnacle of that horizontal intimacy at the sign of peace, a Mass part so nonessential that individual priests can choose to omit it? Under that logic we should be hugging or kissing our fellow congregants right around the time of the reception of the Eucharist, as that’s the personal high point of the Mass. Or why should we say the problem lies in holding hands during the Our Father; perhaps the best way to ensure the intimacy keeps growing lies rather in hugging and kissing during the sign of peace instead of just shaking hands!​

If we can agree that in the Mass the Eucharist is the source and summit of our belief, as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, then we will see that this really is intimacy with Christ Jesus. As we are all members of Christ’s body made in the image and likeness of God, then there is also an intimacy between us a believers. Every word, every action, every posture in the Mass has deep meaning. The Mass prepares us to enter the one sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary. The Mass builds to the pinnacle of intimacy in the Eucharist, where we enter into the Sacrifice of Jesus. Just because someone wants to add or subtract things from the Mass, does not mean they should or that it would be warranted. It is not just personal, otherwise we would not have Sundays as Holy days of obligation; there would be no requirement to attend Mass and the norm would be to receive privately from a priest, deacon or EMHC. As we know, Jesus did not set it up that way. We come together at Mass as the body of Christ. The sign of peace does occur just before we receive Jesus in the Eucharist; the two are closely linked. In the West, the ‘sign’ of peace has been identified as a handshake to those directly around us (this may be considered tradition with a small ‘t’ as in former times and still in some Eastern Rites the sign of peace is a hug or kiss; we are talking here about the Western Roman Rite). As the Mass is a mystery, and as some saints have said even on their death-bead that they had not begun to scratch the surface of understanding the Sacrifice of the Mass, there is no way to understand fully while here on this earth the mystery of the Mass. Though, if we truly try to understand what is really transpiring in the Mass, and try to understand the meaning of what each part, word, gesture, and posture means and how it relates to us as members of Christ’s body, we will be in so much awe that we will not want to add or take away a single thing.
 
If we can agree that in the Mass the Eucharist is the source and summit of our belief, as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, then we will see that this really is intimacy with Christ Jesus. As we are all members of Christ’s body made in the image and likeness of God, then there is also an intimacy between us a believers. Every word, every action, every posture in the Mass has deep meaning. The Mass prepares us to enter the one sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary. The Mass builds to the pinnacle of intimacy in the Eucharist, where we enter into the Sacrifice of Jesus. Just because someone wants to add or subtract things from the Mass, does not mean they should or that it would be warranted. It is not just personal, otherwise we would not have Sundays as Holy days of obligation; there would be no requirement to attend Mass and the norm would be to receive privately from a priest, deacon or EMHC. As we know, Jesus did not set it up that way. We come together at Mass as the body of Christ. The sign of peace does occur just before we receive Jesus in the Eucharist; the two are closely linked. In the West, the ‘sign’ of peace has been identified as a handshake to those directly around us (this may be considered tradition with a small ‘t’ as in former times and still in some Eastern Rites the sign of peace is a hug or kiss; we are talking here about the Western Roman Rite). As the Mass is a mystery, and as some saints have said even on their death-bead that they had not begun to scratch the surface of understanding the Sacrifice of the Mass, there is no way to understand fully while here on this earth the mystery of the Mass. Though, if we truly try to understand what is really transpiring in the Mass, and try to understand the meaning of what each part, word, gesture, and posture means and how it relates to us as members of Christ’s body, we will be in so much awe that we will not want to add or take away a single thing.
I don’t disagree with anything in particular here. But I think a counterbalance to these good sentiments might be necessary.

As in everything, there is such a thing as being too subtle in looking for the symbolism of different parts of the Mass. There is such a thing as reading really convoluted significances into the Mass that aren’t really there. The Mass is beautiful and many parts of it operate on multiple levels of meaning, but there is such a thing as a groundless flight of fancy when looking at the meaning of the Mass.

Explanations of why holding hands at the Our Father isn’t just a bad idea, but actually seriously takes away from the symbolism of the Mass somehow, have always struck me as just such a flight of fancy. They just seem so arbitrary. I’ve often been told that it detracts from the sign of peace. But why is that necessarily the case? Why can’t it rather anticipate the sign of peace?

But as I said, it’s possible that I’m wrong and that the practice does detract from the Mass on a deeper level than the practical. My main point remains the same: it is perfectly licit, and it is up to individuals’ prudential judgments what to do with their hands during the Our Father.
 
I don’t disagree with anything in particular here. But I think a counterbalance to these good sentiments might be necessary.

As in everything, there is such a thing as being too subtle in looking for the symbolism of different parts of the Mass. There is such a thing as reading really convoluted significances into the Mass that aren’t really there. The Mass is beautiful and many parts of it operate on multiple levels of meaning, but there is such a thing as a groundless flight of fancy when looking at the meaning of the Mass.

Explanations of why holding hands at the Our Father isn’t just a bad idea, but actually seriously takes away from the symbolism of the Mass somehow, have always struck me as just such a flight of fancy. They just seem so arbitrary. I’ve often been told that it detracts from the sign of peace. But why is that necessarily the case? Why can’t it rather anticipate the sign of peace?

But as I said, it’s possible that I’m wrong and that the practice does detract from the Mass on a deeper level than the practical. My main point remains the same: it is perfectly licit, and it is up to individuals’ prudential judgments what to do with their hands during the Our Father.
I have never found a “groundless flight of fancy” and never have I experienced or seen “reading really convoluted significances to the Mass that aren’t really there” when contemplating the mystery of the sacrifice of the Mass. Could you provide some examples of this?

In the days when I was running from God and the Church I did see the Mass as antiquated without much meaning; that is until through the grace of God I rediscovered the mystery and beauty of the Mass. Since then I have found no reason to tamper with the actions, words, gestures, or postures of the Mass. Instead I have become in awe of how the liturgy of the Mass has remained basically the same since St. Justin Martyr wrote about it in the second century.

The detraction is the in the interruption and distraction of the flow of the Mass, as well as the distraction it might cause others. We are also responsible not to be a cause of distraction to others: If someone reaches for the hand of someone who is not ready for it, is not expecting it, or does not have it as his or her tradition, it causes distraction. In addition to that, we have the responsibility to protect ourselves and others from uncharitable thoughts: when someone who does not not wish to hold hands politely declines it registers as rejection in the sub-conscious of the other person. In some it registers in the conscious and then the person refusing is thought of as uncharitable, when in reality, it is not their tradition, or preference to hold hands during the liturgy. The same cannot be said with the handshake at the sign of peace; When someone has a cold and wants to protect others, the person can politely decline the handshake and substitute another gesture to signify a sign of peace to others (a wave of the hand, or nod of the head). I have already explained the Mass moving forward toward intimacy with Jesus in the Eucharist and that hand holding is more intimate than a handshake, which causes backwards motion in the liturgy, which is anathema when everything in the Mass progresses to and points to Jesus in the Eucharist.

Just because it is ‘licit’ does not make it right or warranted. For example, if a Catholic Man and woman are living together, but have decided to remain celibate until they are married, all of the Church laws and statutes indicate it might be licit for each of them to receive the Eucharist. However, for various reasons (e.g. to protect the community or to avoid scandalizing fellow parishioners), it may not be right or proper for them to receive the Eucharist.
 
I have never found a “groundless flight of fancy” and never have I experienced or seen “reading really convoluted significances to the Mass that aren’t really there” when contemplating the mystery of the sacrifice of the Mass. Could you provide some examples of this?
I can think of a few examples. I was once told that the amen after the Eucharistic Prayer was the particular moment at which we unite our sacrifice of ourselves with Christ’s offering of himself to the Father. But then it was pointed out to me by a liturgical traditionalist friend of mine (who is studying sacred music) that that particular amen has no special status in the rubrics; nowhere does it say it is especially different from any other amen spoken by the congregation in the Mass, nowhere does it say that it should be sung. As far as I know, the idea that this amen was somehow an extra special moment was someone’s rather groundless conjecture.

The other example was the one I already mentioned. I’ve often been told that holding hands during the Our Father detracts from the vertical (or sacrificial) aspect of the Mass. But I fail to see why that is necessarily the case. Why should it necessarily take away from the Mass as a sacrifice? I realize that this is not the argument you made; your argument is different and more sophisticated. But at the moment I’m just giving examples of groundless claims about the symbolism of the Mas.

But I didn’t really have specific examples in mind when I wrote about groundless flights of fancy in examining the symbolism of the Mass, except for examples specifically relating to the issue of hand holding. I was mainly mentioning it as a theoretical possibility. We should be careful not to accept any and every claim about symbolism or meaning in the Mass (or in anything) just because it sounds solemn and cool. Sometimes, supposed symbols are just a stretch; they just were not the original intent, or are just not really there.
Since then I have found no reason to tamper with the actions, words, gestures, or postures of the Mass.
But there is no hand posture during the Our Father to tamper with, because no hand posture is specified. It is not a question of tempering with a norm, but deciding what to do in an area where there is no norm.
Instead I have become in awe of how the liturgy of the Mass has remained basically the same since St. Justin Martyr wrote about it in the second century.
Indeed!
The detraction is the in the interruption and distr… nify a sign of peace to others (a wave of the hand, or nod of the head).
A few comments. I would not agree that hand holding interrupts the flow of the Mass; simply by virtue of the fact that everyone is saying the same words at the same time ensures the exact same flow every time at this point in the liturgy. Also,it seems to me that there is generally a much greater lack of charity for hand-holders by people who object to the practice than vice-versa.

But on the whole I agree with you. I do not personally like hand holding during the Our Father, and I don’t do it, for many of the same practical reasons you mention. In particular, I think trying to take hold of the hand of someone you don’t know and who might not like to hold hands during the Our Father is an awful idea that consistently causes a minor ruckus for those involved.
I have already explained the Mass moving forward toward intimacy with Jesus in the Eucharist and that hand holding is more intimate than a handshake, which causes backwards motion in the liturgy, which is anathema when everything in the Mass progresses to and points to Jesus in the Eucharist.
I still honestly don’t find this convincing. If everything should constantly grow in intimacy during the Mass until the reception of the Eucharist, then why do we reach the peak of horizontal intimacy during the sign of peace and then never really interact with our neighbors again until after Mass? It seems like horizontal intimacy, rather than continuing to grow, drops off completely right after the sign of peace! But why is it terrible for horizontal intimacy to reach its peak during the Our Father anyway? Why not have it reach its peak there and then drop off, to give way to a greater emphasis on vertical intimacy with Jesus Christ? The idea that the sign of peace must be more intimate than the Our Father just seems so arbitrary. And even if it is true, why is the solution necessarily to not hold hands during the Our Father? We could just as easily fix the problem by continuing to hold hands during the Our Father and start hugging or kissing during the sign of peace!
Just because it is ‘licit’ does not make it right or warranted.
This is certainly true. A Catholic has every right to hold that a particular practice, while licit, is a terrible idea; I never meant to deny that.
For example, if a Catholic Man and woman are living together, but have decided to remain celibate until they are married, all of the Church laws and statutes indicate it might be licit for each of them to receive the Eucharist. However, for various reasons (e.g. to protect the community or to avoid scandalizing fellow parishioners), it may not be right or proper for them to receive the Eucharist.
I think cohabitation is condemned as such, though, isn’t it?
 
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