Holocaust-surviving Jews Thank Pope

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rien said:
IMO Christianity will never again be a major player in Europe.
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It is rather difficult to imagine how it could possibly return to its former position, I would agree.

I think that Europe’s arrived at the curious situation where all the idealisms have failed - religion ‘failed’, the right-wing idealism of fascism was an unmitigated catastrophe and the left-wing idealism of communism left half the continent a bankrupt wreck.

There doesn’t seem to be much taste for trying any of them again.
 
Eden said:
"June 18, 2008

In the book "A Vatican LIfeline 44’ by William Simpson,it is all there. I knew Major Simpson…he was a tank commander from Scotland who was captured in North Africa by Rommells forces,shipped to Itlay for incarceration ,escaped ,made his way to Rome and worked in the underground with Monsg.Hugh OFlaherty…portrayed in a movie by Gregory Peck in 1968. Between that and Sister Marchiones books on how her religious order in Italy also housed and saved thousands,no wonder Pope PiusX11 is hated so by the secular humanists! Remember Italy was taken over by the marxists in 1870 and by 1945 had the largest communist party membership of any nation in europe outside of mother russia it self…so the job was monumental that P:ius and the Church performed …
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Also a monument was raised in France in honor of a brazilian catholic embassador who risk his life to help save the jews given them visas to get out of the country. many catholics from differents places worked quietly helping jews to escape.

:byzsoc: :highprayer: :angel1:
 
Kaninchen said:
It has always been my belief that one of the keys to understanding the decline of the Church in Europe lies in that discontinuity between the ‘ideal’ and ‘what actually happened’ in the first half of the last century.
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Sorry, that makes no sense at all. Benedict XV and the Catholic Church were virtually alone in Europe in trying to prevent and then stop the senseless slaughter of WW1. WW2 was created and sustained by militantly anti-Catholic atheists. By the end of it, nearly all non-Catholics even a non-religious Jewish genius like Einstein, had come to have tremendous admiration for the Church, and it boomed after the war with many conversions. It wasn’t until Europe itself began to decline in the late 1960s that the Church in Europe began to decline.
The crazy idea, that the Church or any significant number of practising Catholics supported the Nazis, would have been ridiculed by anyone who lived at that time. It wasn’t until the 1960s that a Communist agent first hinted at this idea, now unthinkingly swallowed as fact by many with an anti-Catholic agenda.
 
rien said:
I think that is a great point. The great European wars last century -Christian against Christian - did not start the collapse of Chrsitianity but surely accelerated to the point we see today. Throughout formerly Chritian Europe - whether the reformed parts or the catholic part. IMO Christianity will never again be a major player in Europe.
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What about the great Christian versus Christian wars of 16th to 17th century Europe? You might have a point about WW1 when both sides thought God was on their side, but WW2 was basically atheists against (Christians plus nominal Christians plus some other atheists)
To deny the rampant anti-Semitism of Christianity over the centuries is absurd. Just read history. And I am not talking just catholics. Read some of martin Luther’s comments about jews. Absolutely abhorrent IMO.
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Nobody here tried to deny it. So why bring it up? It is irrelevant to the topic of the Nazi holocaust (except that Luther’s anti-semitism and the acquiescence of many Lutherans had some influence on the Nazis but you can hardly blame the Catholic Church for the actions of Luther and his followers!)
99% of the anti-semitism, and virtually 100% of the anti-semitic murders, of the 20th century, were committed by athists (mainly) and moslems. Not by Christians.
And the Nazis made very clear that after the Jews the next in line for extermination were Catholics. They had already killed millions of Catholics including thousands of priests.
 
Petergee said:
And the Nazis made very clear that after the Jews the next in line for extermination were Catholics. They had already killed millions of Catholics including thousands of priests.
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The vast majority of the Catholics who were killed were killed for being Polish, not for being Catholic. Certainly it was clear that the Slavs were next on the list for extermination - those who were not being kept alive for slave labor in the vastly extended Reich - but that’s because they were Slavs not because they were Catholic or Orthodox.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Also a monument was raised in France in honor of a brazilian catholic embassador who risk his life to help save the jews given them visas to get out of the country. many catholics from differents places worked quietly helping jews to escape.

:byzsoc: :highprayer: :angel1:
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That is true. And many Jews mistakenly thought that each one of them was acting under instructions from the Pope when in fact they were almost always individual acts of heroism.
 
Kaninchen said:
The vast majority of the Catholics who were killed were killed for being Polish, not for being Catholic. Certainly it was clear that the Slavs were next on the list for extermination - those who were not being kept alive for slave labor in the vastly extended Reich - but that’s because they were Slavs not because they were Catholic or Orthodox.
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These nuns were killed quite possibly for sheltering Jewish children. They were both Polish and Catholic, and are up for canonization:

phila-csfn.org/sister.htm
 
Valke2 said:
That is true. And many Jews mistakenly thought that each one of them was acting under instructions from the Pope when in fact they were almost always individual acts of heroism.
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Have you ever done an act of kindness which you did not want it to be seen and did not desire to take the credit for it?

the CC has no desire to take credit or show off to anyone on what she does.

whether someone choose to believe or not is besides the point.

"Lord, to whom should we go? you have the words of eternal life."
 
wisdomseeker said:
Have you ever done an act of kindness which you did not want it to be seen and did not desire to take the credit for it?

the CC has no desire to take credit or show off to anyone on what she does.

whether someone choose to believe or not is besides the point.

"Lord, to whom should we go? you have the words of eternal life."
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I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at. Are you saying that these people were secretly acting under orders from the Pope, rather than taking it upon themselves to do great acts of kindness?
 
Valke2 said:
I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at. Are you saying that these people were secretly acting under orders from the Pope, rather than taking it upon themselves to do great acts of kindness?
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what do you think?

:highprayer: :byzsoc:
 
I don’t understand why we don’t hear more about the great Tour de France champion cyclist, Gino Bartali, who served as a volunteer courier during the war, rescuing at least 800 Italian Jews?

I grew up hearing about him from my mother, and as a cyclist myself, I have always adored him not only for his humanitarian work but his winning of the TDF and the Giro D’Italia twice!

Bartali was a very, very devout Catholic, who became even more so after the death of his brother in a car accident.

He should make all Catholics as proud to be Catholic as he makes me proud to be of Italian ancestry! 🙂

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gino_Bartali

abc.net.au/cycling/items/s824288.htm
 
Sepharad said:
These nuns were killed quite possibly for sheltering Jewish children. They were both Polish and Catholic, and are up for canonization:

phila-csfn.org/sister.htm
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That’s an amazing story Sepharad. Thanks for sharing.
I always enjoy reading about the different Saints. There
are so many Sts. that lived here on Earth that did so many
wonderful things. 🙂

I learn something new everyday. 🙂
 
Sepharad said:
I don’t understand why we don’t hear more about the great Tour de France champion cyclist, Gino Bartali, who served as a volunteer courier during the war, rescuing at least 800 Italian Jews?

I grew up hearing about him from my mother, and as a cyclist myself, I have always adored him not only for his humanitarian work but his winning of the TDF and the Giro D’Italia twice!

Bartali was a very, very devout Catholic, who became even more so after the death of his brother in a car accident.

He should make all Catholics as proud to be Catholic as he makes me proud to be of Italian ancestry! 🙂

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gino_Bartali

abc.net.au/cycling/items/s824288.htm
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Someone should make a movie on Bartali.
He was a good man. 🙂 Thanks for sharing. 🙂
 
wisdomseeker said:
what do you think?

:highprayer: :byzsoc:
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I think they acted individually, perhaps even out of some guilt over the lack of direction from the Church. This is not to say that they did not act in accordance with their faith. I believe they did.
 
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