Holocaust-surviving Jews Thank Pope

[Petergee]

Well, you’ve got some explaining to do about Slovakia and Croatia but the post you’re referring to was a response to your assertion that:

And the Nazis made very clear that after the Jews the next in line for extermination were Catholics.

For which you’ve not the slightest evidence.

In addition to the voluminous evidence already posted here,see:
nationalreview.com/shiflett/shiflett012102.shtml

More quotes from good ol’ kaflick-lovin’ Adolf:

“Christianity is a disease of the mind”.

He described himself as “a complete pagan”.
The book Hitler’s Secret Conversations: 1941-1944, published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc. (1953), contains definitive proof of Hitler’s real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, Hitler’s Table Talk: 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together… The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity… Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday:
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death… When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity… Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity… And that’s why someday its structure will collapse… …the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little… Christianity [is] the liar… We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)
19th October, 1941, night:
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
21st October, 1941, midday:
Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer… The decisive falsification of Jesus’ doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work… for the purposes of personal exploitation… Didn’t the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it’s in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St. Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)
13th December, 1941, midnight:
Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery… [here he insults people who believe transubstantiation] … When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)
14th December, 1941, midday:
Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don’t believe the thing’s possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself… Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)
9th April, 1942, dinner:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)
27th February, 1942, midday:
It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity… My regret will have been that I couldn’t… behold its demise." (p 278)

Now could we please see the slightest evidence for your assertion that the Church in Europe declined in the late 20th century because of what you allege was its massive failure to live up to Christian ideals in the early 20th century? No, I thought not.

 

[Kaninchen]

In addition to the voluminous evidence already posted here,see:
nationalreview.com/shiflett/shiflett012102.shtml

More quotes from good ol’ kaflick-lovin’ Adolf:

I’m sure that you had a lovely time collecting those but what you were supposed to be looking for was evidence for your assertion:

And the Nazis made very clear that after the Jews the next in line for extermination were Catholics.

The word you’re working on is “extermination” by the way.

 

[Eden]

I’ll try again. If necessary, tell me at which number your comprehension breaks down:

1. Your op contained a link to the story behind the op - OK so far?
2. That story contained a paragraph about the criticisms of Pius XII - OK so far?
3. I said that I considered the Pius XII question a diversion - OK so far?

The article concludes with the following:

“Finally, (the) meeting of Jewish Holocaust survivors thanking the pope for what the Church did to save their lives says it all. No amount of revisionism can change that.”

1. I went on to have conversations with other people where I explained my position - OK so far?

1. Replying to one of the posters (JReducation - we had quite a pleasant conversation, by the way), I mentioned the Slovakia and Croatia issue, something I was to do again in a later reply (post #64) on the question of complicity. OK so far?

Why did you mention the Slovakia and Croatia “issue”? This is where I am not “OK”. I don’t get the connection to the OP.

1. You brought up Filipovic-Majstorovic (post #75). OK so far?

Clearly, in response to your introduced topic.

1. I restated my position (post #77). OK so far?

No, because I still don’t get the point or the connection to the OP.

1. You complained that I was diverting the thread.

Indeed.

Now, since my response was directly to a paragraph in the article you, yourself, had linked to in your op, it could hardly be described as a diversion. That you don’t like the way that the conversation went is hardly my fault - the meeting mentioned in the op wasn’t contentious, the contents of the article cited in the op were contentious and, if you don’t want comments on the content of an article, don’t cite the article.

Again, I don’t see why the great leap from Italian Holocaust survivors thanking the Church for saving their lives at an audience with Pope Benedict XVI several weeks ago, to a Slovakia and Croatia “issue”. I’ve stated this several times now. I don’t get your point.

I was referring to those parts of CAF less given argument.

It’s the topic that generates the debate, not the placement of a thread. The topic of this thread was about a positive story in Jewish-Catholic relations. Although, I’m impressed to see that if one is cynical enough, even a positive article on the Jewish-Catholic relations can be made negative. It reminds me of a neighbor I once had who could never be positive. If you said, “Beautiful day today, isn’t it?” She would reply, “Yes, but it’s going to rain tomorrow.”

 

[Kaninchen]

Again, I don’t see why the great leap from Italian Holocaust survivors thanking the Church for saving their lives at an audience with Pope Benedict XVI several weeks ago, to a Slovakia and Croatia “issue”. I’ve stated this several times now.

Well, if every comment in a thread was exactly tuned to the wishes of the op, most threads on CAF would die at the op. If every post in a thread was a discussion with the op, most threads would die on the first page.

I don’t get your point.

Well, this conversation is beyond pointlessness, that’s for sure.

 

[Eden]

Getting back on track, here is more information for everyone about the Holocaust survivors who attended the audience with Pope Benedict XVI and about the Symposium that they are organizing for September to study Pope Pius XII’s efforts to save the Jews:

"The L’Osservatore Romano reported this week that during the Wednesday General Audience, a group of Holocaust survivors who are part of the Pave the Way Foundation greeted Pope Benedict XVI and announced they would organizing a symposium in September of this year on “the important help Pius XII gave to the Jews” during World War II. Garry Krupp, president of the Foundation, said the symposium would be held in Rome September 15-18 and would be dedicated to studying Pope Pius XII’s efforts to save Jews. He said his attendance at the audience, together with the Holocaust survivors, was “an expression of gratitude to Pope Pacelli to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his death.”

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12994

The link includes a video.

 

[Petergee]

I’m sure that you had a lovely time collecting those but what you were supposed to be looking for was evidence for your assertion:

And the Nazis made very clear that after the Jews the next in line for extermination were Catholics.

The word you’re working on is “extermination” by the way.

Did you actually read what I posted?

And you STILL have produced no evidence for your assertion the Church in Europe declined in the late 20th century because of what you allege was its massive failure to live up to Christian ideals in the early 20th century.

 

[Kaninchen]

Did you actually read what I posted?

Yes and there’s absolutely nothing there about the extermination of Catholics, never mind the extermination of Catholics being next on the list, so you certainly need to get on with some more googling.

And you STILL have produced no evidence for your assertion the Church in Europe declined in the late 20th century because of what you allege was its massive failure to live up to Christian ideals in the early 20th century.

What I said was:

It has always been my belief that one of the keys to understanding the decline of the Church in Europe lies in that discontinuity between the ‘ideal’ and ‘what actually happened’ in the first half of the last century.

Which is more than rather different.

The thing is that, let’s face it, there’s absolutely no way that you and I can have any kind of civilized conversation with one another about anything at all - our previous interactions have been completely negative - so I’ve not the slightest intention of bothering.

If somebody else wants to talk about it, I’ll talk to them about it.

 

[Petergee]

Yes and there’s absolutely nothing there about the extermination of Catholics

Really? Maybe I can pick out a few sections for you since you seem to have such trouble comprehending the whole:
“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.”

“By exterminating this pest [Christianity], we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea.”

“we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.”

“Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity… My regret will have been that I couldn’t… behold its demise.”

“It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity, because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.”

“One is either a Christian or a German. You can’t be both.”

“Do you really believe the masses will ever be Christian again? Nonsense. Never again. The tale is finished… but we can hasten matters. The parsons will be made to dig their own graves.”

In Poland, both Jews and Christians were objects of Nazi oppression and manipulation. The clergy were a chief target: In West Prussia, out of 690 parish priests, at least two-thirds were arrested, and the remainder escaped only by fleeing from their parishes. After a month’s imprisonment, no less than 214 of these priests were executed… by the end of 1940 only twenty priests were left in their parishes — about three percent of the number of parish priests in the pre-war era. The toll of murdered Polish priests would rise into the thousands

Important leaders of the National Socialist party would have liked to meet this situation [church influence] by complete extirpation of Christianity and the substitution of a purely racial religion.

The thing is that, let’s face it, there’s absolutely no way that you and I can have any kind of civilized conversation with one another about anything at all - our previous interactions have been completely negative - so I’ve not the slightest intention of bothering.

Ok, at least you’ve got a novel excuse for failing to defend your unfounded assertions.

 

[Sepharad]

Could I make one request, to both “sides” of this debate?

I realize the expression, “extermination of the (fill in the blank)” is a phrase often used, but many use it without thinking.

“Exterminate” is what we do to pests, insects…not human beings. To refer to the “extermination” of Jews, Catholics, whoever, actually plays into the hands, verbally, of those who sought and seek the destruction of said peoples.

If I learned anything from my years as a writer and also my involvement in the pro-life movement, it is that words have power, and can be used to sway minds. How we use them is crucial.

 

[Kaninchen]

Ok, at least you’ve got a novel excuse for failing to defend your unfounded assertions.

It would be an ‘excuse’ if I wasn’t prepared to discuss it - I’m just not prepared to talk to you about . . . well, anything really.

 

[Petergee]

Could I make one request, to both “sides” of this debate?

I realize the expression, “extermination of the (fill in the blank)” is a phrase often used, but many use it without thinking.

“Exterminate” is what we do to pests, insects…not human beings. To refer to the “extermination” of Jews, Catholics, whoever, actually plays into the hands, verbally, of those who sought and seek the destruction of said peoples.

If I learned anything from my years as a writer and also my involvement in the pro-life movement, it is that words have power, and can be used to sway minds. How we use them is crucial.

True, but my point is that “exterminate” was the actual word the Nazis used for what they intended to do to Jews and Catholics, whom they really did treat as less-than-human beings.

Yes it’s a powerful word, which is why in arguing with a pro-abortionist, I might well tell him that he is arguing for the “extermination” of human babies, just to bring home to him the enormity of what he is proposing.

 

[Petergee]

Some more information for anyone who wants to know the facts about Nazi persecution of Catholics:

catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=2857

holycross.edu/departments/history/vlapomar/hiatt/krause_review.pdf

amazon.com/Forgotten-Holocaust-German-Occupation-1939-1944/dp/0781809010/ref=sid_dp_dp

amazon.com/review/product/1929291663/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

[nice2000]

Some more information for anyone who wants to know the facts about Nazi persecution of Catholics:

catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=2857

holycross.edu/departments/history/vlapomar/hiatt/krause_review.pdf

amazon.com/Forgotten-Holocaust-German-Occupation-1939-1944/dp/0781809010/ref=sid_dp_dp

amazon.com/review/product/1929291663/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Hi Petergee,

I truly believe that Hitler was planning on “exterminating” many others besides just the Jews as well. I believe that once he felt that he accomplished exterminating all the Jews…His next plan was to exterminate the religious as well as other minorities. He was a very evil man

 

[Sepharad]

Hi Petergee,

I truly believe that Hitler was planning on “exterminating” many others besides just the Jews as well. I believe that once he felt that he accomplished exterminating all the Jews…His next plan was to exterminate the religious as well as other minorities. He was a very evil man

He tried to eliminate the Romani people also (most people know them as “gypsies”). The Roma refer to the Nazi genocide as the Porrajamos (the devouring).

 

[Kaninchen]

He tried to eliminate the Romani people also (most people know them as “gypsies”). The Roma refer to the Nazi genocide as the Porrajamos (the devouring).

The really big target were the Slavs - whatever form of Christianity they practiced - not because of their Christianity but because they were Untermensch (‘sub-humans’) occupying the new territories of the Großdeutsches Reich (‘Greater Reich’).

 

[Sepharad]

The really big target were the Slavs - whatever form of Christianity they practiced - not because of their Christianity but because they were Untermensch (‘sub-humans’) occupying the new territories of the Großdeutsches Reich (‘Greater Reich’).

I know…but Hitler was such a hypocrite. Did you know the Nazis took Slavic (Polish, Ukrainian) girls who looked “Aryan” (blond, blue-eyed), and used them in their Lebensborn maternity homes? I guess when the available supply of German girls ran out, Polish girls could always be used as “fill-ins”! I recently read an article about the babies born in such homes (grown up now); their plights are very sad…they don’t even know who their parents are.

(For those who don’t know: the Nazis operated a network of maternity homes, called Lebensborn, where German (and other) “Aryan” girls were expected to mate with SS soldiers, in order to repopulate the “Aryan” race.)

 

[Kaninchen]

I know…but Hitler was such a hypocrite. Did you know the Nazis took Slavic (Polish, Ukrainian) girls who looked “Aryan” (blond, blue-eyed), and used them in their Lebensborn maternity homes? I guess when the available supply of German girls ran out, Polish girls could always be used as “fill-ins”! I recently read an article about the babies born in such homes (grown up now); their plights are very sad…they don’t even know who their parents are.

(For those who don’t know: the Nazis operated a network of maternity homes, called Lebensborn, where German (and other) “Aryan” girls were expected to mate with SS soldiers, in order to repopulate the “Aryan” race.)

They also appropriated sufficiently ‘Aryan’ Slav children and sent them to be adopted by German families. The theory was, of course, that so many Germans had lived in the predominantly Slav lands that a proportion of the population was German enough. It was done on things like hair color, shade of eye color and head measurements.

 

[Eden]

And the Nazis also had a program that I have heard called (in English) Action T4 to get rid of people who had “life not worth living” (ebensunwertes Leben). This was a plan to kill anyone deemed unsuitable for life because they had mental or physical disabilities. Pope Benedict XVI’s 14-year-old cousin with Down Syndrome was taken away by Nazis claiming to be therapists. His family was later notified that the boy had “died” (i.e. was murdered).

 

[hawkeye]

I think that is a great point. The great European wars last century -Christian against Christian - did not start the collapse of Chrsitianity but surely accelerated to the point we see today. Throughout formerly Chritian Europe - whether the reformed parts or the catholic part. IMO Christianity will never again be a major player in Europe.

You make us all sound like a bunch of heathens over here, many people still attend Mass and there are many faithful people, going quietly about their Christian lives minus the trumpet blowing.

As for Christianity not being a major player, the Church hasn’t collapsed you know ! it’s still here, major player or not.

It is rather difficult to imagine how it could possibly return to its former position, I would agree.

It doesn’t need it’s former position, it needs a better one, and God will supply.

I think that Europe’s arrived at the curious situation where all the idealisms have failed - religion ‘failed’, the right-wing idealism of fascism was an unmitigated catastrophe and the left-wing idealism of communism left half the continent a bankrupt wreck.

Maybe religion has failed for you, but for many in europe it’s still a major player in their lives.

There doesn’t seem to be much taste for trying any of them again.

And you a negative person with negative posts, you didn’t understand N,Ireland troubles which I lived through for 30 plus years, so how can we swallow your view-point of something that was even further back in history.

 

[Sepharad]

And the Nazis also had a program that I have heard called (in English) Action T4 to get rid of people who had “life not worth living” (ebensunwertes Leben). This was a plan to kill anyone deemed unsuitable for life because they had mental or physical disabilities. Pope Benedict XVI’s 14-year-old cousin with Down Syndrome was taken away by Nazis claiming to be therapists. His family was later notified that the boy had “died” (i.e. was murdered).

“Leben unswerten leben”, and sadly, I’m too familiar with this subject. I wrote an article on it for a pro-life magazine back in the 1990s, in fact, under my pen name (its available on this website): jewsforlife.org/Article_Detail.cfm?ID=196

What few people realize is that the Nazis started with disabled people, not with Jews. They routinely starved disabled people to death, or injected them with phenol to kill them.

And what few people realize (this deserves its own thread, really!) is that the eugenics movement upon which the Nazis based their ideas, started right here in the USA in the 1920s, with the junk science coming out of Cold Spring Harbor, NY.

Margaret Sanger (of Planned Parenthood infamy) was a leader in the eugenics movement, and she even had Nazi leaders writing for her magazine, Birth Control Review!

My father had a lifelong fear of medical doctors, and an inability to trust them…and it stems from what happened to his aunt during the 1920s…she had fallen from a tree, developed a mental problem from it, and doctors convinced my great grandmother (who spoke no English) to sign her away, where she was placed into a mental institution and was sterilized against her will. This issue is a very, very personal one for me and my father’s family…and it STARTED here in the USA!