Holy Communion (Need Advice Please)

[adam26]

I will preface this post by saying I was born and raised in the Traditional Latin Mass and between the ages of 8-19 I served Mass atleast 2 our of every 4 Sundays a month.
The closest Latin Mass to me now is about a 100 mile round trip, and we (my wife and I) have an English Mass about a 20 mile round trip so that is where we go. My wife was born and raised in the Novus Ordo Mass and has never been to a Traditional Mass. We were married in the Novus Ordo Mass, but I have only one issue I am having a hard time getting over and am looking for some advice/guidance on this matter.

I consider Holy Communion to be disrespectful at the Novus Ordo Mass. I am used to a communion rail, the priest being the only one to handle the host, kneeling down to receive communion, the altar boy with the paten to catch any particles that may fall, hands folded, the sign of the cross afterwards, etc……
Here is what I see on a weekly basis from 80-85% of the church we attend during communion. Hands not folded on the way up or back, or if they are it is the folding of the hands like if you are twiddling your thumbs. No sign of the cross made, hands out to receive communion they like are receiving change at a cash register, un-ordained lay persons giving out communion and blessings to young children, etc…….

I know this may sound harsh, but I just don’t get it. Can anyone give me a GOOD answer as to why we no longer kneel before Christ in Communion, why we feel we have the right to take the host in our hands and not on the tongue, why do lay people who have taken classes feel that they are special enough to give communion as opposed to a priest, with years of schooling and who has taken vows (who also washes his hands at the offertory to prepare for the host).

I like the English Mass, most of it I am accustomed to already, and our Parish is pretty conservative, but I just miss badly the respect I felt for Communion in the Latin Mass. I want to so badly except the entire new Mass but it is hard for me to get over what I consider to be disrespect towards the Host. I know the only person I can control is myself, I still receive on the tongue only, but any advice on how to deal with my “issue” is very apprecicated.

~Adam

 

[laszlo]

I consider Holy Communion to be disrespectful at the Novus Ordo Mass. I am used to a communion rail, the priest being the only one to handle the host, kneeling down to receive communion, the altar boy with the paten to catch any particles that may fall, hands folded, the sign of the cross afterwards, etc……
Here is what I see on a weekly basis from 80-85% of the church we attend during communion. Hands not folded on the way up or back, or if they are it is the folding of the hands like if you are twiddling your thumbs. No sign of the cross made, hands out to receive communion they like are receiving change at a cash register, un-ordained lay persons giving out communion and blessings to young children, etc…….

Jesus Christ made the hierarchy to judge about His Church, and the Church decided that the communion as you described it is acceptable. Catholics accept the decisions of the Church

Jus murmuring is allowed, but that is it.

As for the cash register reference I recommend you to meditate on the original greek of John 6:56

blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=6&t=KJV#conc/56

Click on the link for G5176 (word trogo) and you may be scandalized by the first meaning of the word

1. to gnaw, crunch, chew raw vegetables or fruits (as nuts, almonds)

a) of animals feeding

b) of men

1. to eat

 

[adam26]

Jesus Christ made the hierarchy to judge about His Church, and the Church decided that the communion as you described it is acceptable.

Maybe so, but it was interesting to see during Midnight Mass with the Pope that all communion was given on the tongue, even when some of the congregation came with their hands out the priests (85 of them giving communion along with the Pope, no lay people) held the Host to their mouth until they opened it.

 

[MisterCorduroy]

Being from an Eastern Catholic/Orthodox background, I had a hard time with laypeople giving me Communion. I tried to sit where I knew I would be in the line for a priest or Deacon. I would only receive on the tongue.

But after two years in a contemporary Roman parish and visiting many parishes, I realized that the most important thing is that I’m receiving Jesus. Even if there are things going on that make me cringe, or I have to sing a Marty Hagen-daas song from the Gather hymnal, etc. I try not to think about whether the well-meaning pious people of the parish are doing everything right, but instead ask “Is it well with my soul?” Am I partaking worthily.

Does it matter if the old lady distributing the host is worthy to handle it when I’m not worthy to receive it? At a TLM, though everyone is going through the “right” motions, and doing things “correctly” their hearts can still be far from Christ.

 

[Barb3]

I agree with Mister Courduroy – I am a “cradle” Catholic and very old – so I’ve seen many changes in the Church – some I agree with – some I don’t – but the important part to me is receiving Jesus in the Eucharist, and it’s the only thing that keeps me going. My children live far away and I have to get on a plane to see them --my husband died 10 years ago – and when my sister died a few years ago I have no family left in my area.
Several years ago I made a one-day retreat regarding the Eucharist given by a priest by the name of Fr. Ron Rolheiser (I recommend that you read one of his books). He was so profound-- inspiring – and uplifting I made a promise to myself that I would go to Mass every day to receive the Eucharist, and Jesus stays with me for the rest of the day.
Of course, I would prefer that we go back to the altar rails – receive on the tongue from the priest – BUT the most important thing is that I’m receiving JESUS – what more can you ask.

 

[adam26]

thank you all very much for your insight. I guess I just dont understand why they (altar rails, priest being only one to handle the host, receiving on tongue) were done away with. If you want to speak the prayers in English then so be it, but there is no GOOD reason why they needed to mess with tradition in that form. Sorry, it is just hard for me to get used to some of these things but I am trying!! I think if the Mass was changed to English from Latin so we can understand I would be all for it, but to see how much has been changed/removed from the orginial Mass of centuries past it is sad.

 

[zab]

thank you all very much for your insight. I guess I just dont understand why they (altar rails, priest being only one to handle the host, receiving on tongue) were done away with. If you want to speak the prayers in English then so be it, but there is no GOOD reason why they needed to mess with tradition in that form. Sorry, it is just hard for me to get used to some of these things but I am trying!! I think if the Mass was changed to English from Latin so we can understand I would be all for it, but to see how much has been changed/removed from the orginial Mass of centuries past it is sad.

Receiving on the tongue has not been done away with. To receive on the tongue is still the prefered way to receive even though we have been given an option to receive on the hand. You are participating in the perpetuation of any misunderstanding by continuing to make such comments.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Just as a point of clarification, the Holy Father was asked why he gives the host only on the tongue. He replied that he became aware that some who received from him in the hand were taking the host as a souvenier instead of eating it. So, he decided to give only on the tongue but said that receiving in the hand is a valid way of receiving.

Please continue with the discussion, but be careful not to denigrate any rite of the Church. Thank you all.

 

[JRKH]

I will only interject here that determining what is “good Reason” for anything is entirely subjective. What is good reason to one is not good reason to another.
Certainly we can say that at the first “communion”, the last supper, there was no patten, the host was handled by each of the apostles (not priests yet, but in formation) and as a matter of fact, they received teh host while lying down (they “reclined” at table). It is also easily assumed that the earliest “house churches” used similar methods. Over time teh traditions changed and became more formalized. As to how they developed and changed to and fro, that is a matter for the church to decide.

So long as things are done with proper reverence and in accordance with teh rules of the Church governing such matters that should be good enough reason for any Catholic.

That said, I too am saddened by the lack of understanding and respect that I see during communion. Because of my wife’s illness, when we can get to mass, we sit in the first pew and communionis brought to us (we both receive on the tongue). Because we are so close I see many things that I wish I did not.

However, the problem as I see it is less with the methodology than with the catechesis of the recipients. Either method used, old or new, would be seen as entirely appropriate if only each and every recipient approached and received as though they truly understood the real presence. Further, I would submit that even if we were to return to the old way, the lack of reverence would remain inside even if the actions were more reverent outside.
I’m afraid there are too many “Corinthians” among us, and “whitewashed tombs” among us regardless of how we receive.

To the OP I will give you this hope. If you wish to receive only from a priest or deacon this is easily done. If you wish to receive on the tongue, this too is easily done. If you wish to kneel this too can be done but with some caution for those behind you.

Peace
James

 

[JS_Cortez]

The other thing to consider about this is that the reforms of Vatican II were a call to return to the early traditions of the Church (most notably some that were established after the Christians did not need hide their faith anymore in Rome and the Church could be more organized and established) that had disappeared throughout the centuries. The call to return to earlier and original traditions is most notably seen by the call to Religious Communities to return to their original purposes and their departures from the Catholic schools and some of them not ordaining as many priests as they once did (like the Franciscans).

St. Jerome spoke about receiving Holy Communion in the hand.

This return to ancient ways and not sticking strictly to reforms of the Middle Ages that were installed to protect against heresies is also why the chalice is offered to the laity again in the Latin Rite.

Both receiving by hand or on the tongue are both acceptable and devout ways to receive. The problem, I think, you may be dealing with is the lack of respect and knowledge some Catholics have about what they are actually doing and who they are carrying in their hands and bringing to their lips. We are having an education problem when a Catholic has Holy Communion placed in their hands and they don’t have the thought, “How tender and humble Jesus is that He lets me hold Him for a moment before dwelling in me as He promised.”

My advice is that after you receive and return to your pew, pray for the people around. Pray that the Holy Spirit may enkindle in them zeal for the Lord. And always be a good example for those around you.

 

[adam26]

Please continue with the discussion, but be careful not to denigrate any rite of the Church. Thank you all.

My intent is not to denigrate, yet to undersrtand as I am new to the Novus Ordo Mass.

 

[adam26]

The other thing to consider about this is that the reforms of Vatican II were a call to return to the early traditions of the Church (most notably some that were established after the Christians did not need hide their faith anymore in Rome and the Church could be more organized and established)

St. Jerome spoke about receiving Holy Communion in the hand.

Thank you, these are things I did not know and thus the reason I am here. Thanks again.

 

[adam26]

I do not want anyone to take what I am saying and be offended by it. I know, and have mentioned in my previous posts, that I can (and do) receive Communion on the tongue and if others want to receive in the hand that is their perogative and I have no issues with them for doing so. You must understand it is just as abnormal for me to see Communion in the hand given by a lay person, and no prayers at the foot of the altar or an introit read, as it is for my wife (born and raised N.O.) to see chapel viels, altar rail, altar boy holding a paten or the priest speaking in Latin. I am just here to try to learn and ask questions as I attempt to embrace what is new to me.

 

[adam26]

Interesting quote from St. Cyril:

“When thou goest to receive communion go not with thy wrists extended, nor with thy fingers separated, but placing thy left hand as a throne for thy right, which is to receive so great a King, and in the hollow of the palm receive the body of Christ, saying, Amen.”

(St. Cyril of Jerusalem: “Fifth Mystagogical Catechesis”, 21: PG 33. col 1125 (c. 350 AD) as cited by the Quintsext Synod of Trullo Canon 101 (c. 692 AD)

 

[zab]

I do not want anyone to take what I am saying and be offended by it. I know, and have mentioned in my previous posts, that I can (and do) receive Communion on the tongue and if others want to receive in the hand that is their perogative and I have no issues with them for doing so. You must understand it is just as abnormal for me to see Communion in the hand given by a lay person, and no prayers at the foot of the altar or an introit read, as it is for my wife (born and raised N.O.) to see chapel viels, altar rail, altar boy holding a paten or the priest speaking in Latin. I am just here to try to learn and ask questions as I attempt to embrace what is new to me.

I just have to say that I have been attending the Mass in the ordinary form ever since the Mass has been in English. And I am probably just as uncomfortable as you are when visiting a parish that is as lacking in respect as you describe. The paten has always been used in our parish. More and more people have returned to reception of Communion on the tongue. The majority of daily communicants and at least half of the congregation on Sundays receive on the tongue. But what is more important is the reverence in which people receive no matter what way they choose. We have a large number of altar servers- all male. We also have been using Latin for parts of the Mass for years. And this year even more Latin parts have been added including the Pater Noster and the memorial acclamation. There is much reverence shown during our “novus ordo” Masses. If you are witnessing disrespect at the Mass you attend, it is not because the Mass is being said in the ordinary form.

 

[adam26]

The paten has always been used in our parish. More and more people have returned to reception of Communion on the tongue. The majority of daily communicants and at least half of the congregation on Sundays receive on the tongue. But what is more important is the reverence in which people receive no matter what way they choose. We have a large number of altar servers- all male. We also have been using Latin for parts of the Mass for years. And this year even more Latin parts have been added including the Pater Noster and the memorial acclamation.

I want to go to your Church…

But thank you for your insight, I do not experience any disrespect during the Mass itself or feel uncomfortable but I find it interesting how there in not one norm for a Catholic Mass (Novus Ordo). Some use patens some dont, some use some Latin some dont, some have female altar servers some dont…why is there no norm?

 

[JRKH]

I want to go to your Church…

But thank you for your insight, I do not experience any disrespect during the Mass itself or feel uncomfortable but I find it interesting how there in not one norm for a Catholic Mass (Novus Ordo). Some use patens some dont, some use some Latin some dont, some have female altar servers some dont…why is there no norm?

There is a norm but there are also variations permitted within those norms.
After Vat II, and the subsequent change to Pauline Mass there was also some excessive liberties taken with the permitted variations. For instance the excessive use of extraordinary ministers. At the daily mass of my home parish they use an Extrodinary minister even there arent’ all that many people at mass, AND one of our deacons is nearly always in attendance. By rights, if the priests wishes assistance for distributing it should be the Deacon who performs it in this case, not an extraordinary minister.
Thankfully due to the efforts of JP II and now Benedict XVI some of the more extreme abuses are beginning to fade. There is a pronounced trend toward greater reverence and we get to be a part of this wonderful reawakening.

Peace
James

 

[JS_Cortez]

Thank you, adam26. I meant St. Cyril wrote about communion in the hand, but my brain switched them since St. Jerome is a relative contemporary of Cyril. Of course, considering that fact of overlapping time periods, they both probably wrote something about it.

some use some Latin some dont, some have female altar servers some dont

Pope Benedict XVI, in particular, has encouraged some Latin to be used in the NO masses when its would both benefit and be receptive to the community. The main purpose of the reform and introduction of the NO or Pauline Mass was greater participation of the laity (for example, in earlier years before the reform, the laity would often say the rosary while the Mass went on instead of following in the Missals. We can imagine this was a very common practice in places of illiteracy) .

If the Church incorporates Latin and everyone in the church is praying in it, it is very beautiful and combining tradition with the present, as well as the official language of the Latin rite with the vernacular. However, it can be a double edged sword and the Latin can sound very jarring. For example, my church will use Latin for the Gloria at 10:10 Sun Mass because the choir is there and that’s fine, but that’s also the Mass the CCD kids go to and there is no Latin handout for everyone to participate in prayer. I, personally, think that is against the spirit of what the Pope wants.

In the end, its up to the Pastor and his staff if Latin will be used in the parish and how it will be implemented.

As far female altar servers, its up to the Bishop to allow them but once he does allow them (most notably because being an altar server does not require the sacrament of Holy Orders so there isn’t that impediment to it), some parishes still might not have any female altar servers for the practical reason that no girls volunteered. Likewise, they may have no boys because no boys volunteered. But I don’t think this should be counted against uniformity. Bishops always make decisions that differ from other bishops. Just look at the Holy Days of Obligation between the US and Canada.

 

[adam26]

Just look at the Holy Days of Obligation between the US and Canada.

Please forgive my ignorance, but I didn’t know there was a difference of Holy Days of Obligation from country to country…surely you must be mistaken. There is an allowance of variance within the Church when it comes to Holy Days of Obligation?? I learn something new everyday!

 

[The_Old_Medic]

You can show all the respect that you wish to. If you want to kneel, then do so. It may draw some attention to yourself, but so what?

Personally, I feel no need to kneel to show respect to the living presence. I bow before the host, and then take it into my hand. I then consume it, and feel the actual presence of Jesus inside me. That is all the respect that is necessary.

It is not the external show that is important. It is what each and every person feels and believes that is important.

Remember that Jesus himself rebuked the Pharisee’s for providing a “show”, but no real belief.