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ciero
Guest
Yes the Rudder is available in English…not sure where though…I bought mine over 20 years ago for the tune of $150. It is a VERY interesting read.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Yes, if you Google “The Rudder - OrthodoxWiki” English links will come up. I have a hard copy, but these may be out of print. It is rather “forbidding” book
.I don’t know if there is an insecurity on the part of EC’s regarding what Rome issues so much as a feeling of some annoyance.
To show you what I mean - the Byzantine tradition establishes 15 holydays of obligation, together with all Sundays and we are to fast on all Wednesdays and Fridays.
Rome issues a letter telling us that we should, at the very least, observe the following seven holydays of obligation . and fast on all Fridays.
So what Rome is telling us is not only already included in what we are to do based on our tradition, it even falls short of what our tradition teaches us. And there are those EC’s who may want to do just what Rome has said (under “pain of sin”) and will then ignore the other holydays since they are not of “obligation” (according to Rome).
The same is true of the fasting.
Moreover, when EC’s see how RC’s fast today, they will feel less inclined to observe their traditional fasts as also being “not ones of obligation” and “Rome said we don’t have to fast on Fridays” or, as one EC Redemptorist publication once put it, “Since Rome has abrogated the Friday fast, if we EC’s don’t fast on Fridays, it cannot be a mortal sin” and the like.
You get my drift . . .
It behooves EC’s to stay as far away as possible from that sort of influence from the Holy See of Rome!!
Next time we get a letter from Rome, we should mark it, “return to sender - addressee knows better!”
Alex
C
ConstantineTG
Guest
Interestingly, CCEO 881 says that the Christian Faithful are obligated to attend Divine Liturgy on Sundays and Days of Obligation. The CIC version says that the Roman Catholics must attend a “Mass” at any Catholic Rite. The CCEO version just says Divine Liturgy with no clause for a Catholic Rite. Read it for yourselves:
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POH.HTM
Does this mean an Eastern Catholic can fulfill this obligation in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy?
intratext.com/IXT/ENG1199/_POH.HTM
Does this mean an Eastern Catholic can fulfill this obligation in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy?
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Vico
Guest
The priests and eparchs, in their service to the Church, are obliged to offer the Divine Liturgy a certain minimun of times.Yes, if you Google “The Rudder - OrthodoxWiki” English links will come up. I have a hard copy, but these may be out of print. It is rather “forbidding” book
I don’t know if there is an insecurity on the part of EC’s regarding what Rome issues so much as a feeling of some annoyance.
To show you what I mean - the Byzantine tradition establishes 15 holydays of obligation, together with all Sundays and we are to fast on all Wednesdays and Fridays.
Rome issues a letter telling us that we should, at the very least, observe the following seven holydays of obligation . and fast on all Fridays.
So what Rome is telling us is not only already included in what we are to do based on our tradition, it even falls short of what our tradition teaches us. And there are those EC’s who may want to do just what Rome has said (under “pain of sin”) and will then ignore the other holydays since they are not of “obligation” (according to Rome).
The same is true of the fasting.
Moreover, when EC’s see how RC’s fast today, they will feel less inclined to observe their traditional fasts as also being “not ones of obligation” and “Rome said we don’t have to fast on Fridays” or, as one EC Redemptorist publication once put it, “Since Rome has abrogated the Friday fast, if we EC’s don’t fast on Fridays, it cannot be a mortal sin” and the like.
You get my drift . . .
It behooves EC’s to stay as far away as possible from that sort of influence from the Holy See of Rome!!
Next time we get a letter from Rome, we should mark it, “return to sender - addressee knows better!”
Alex
Byzantine USA Particular law:
Canon 198
The eparchial bishop is to celebrate the Divine Liturgy for the people on all Sundays and the days of precept. The days of precept are:
January 6 - Theophany of our Lord
Ascension of Lord
June 29 - Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul
August 15 - Dormition of the Mother of God
December 25 - Nativity of our Lord
Canon 294
The pastor is to celebrate the Divine Liturgy for the people of the parish entrusted to him on all Sundays and days of precept. The days of precept are:
January 6 - Theophany of our Lord
Ascension of Lord
June 29 - Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul
August 15 - Dormition of the Mother of God
December 25 - Nativity of our Lord
Canon 880 §2
§1. The special penitential seasons are:
1o. The Great Fast
2o. The Peter and Paul Fast
3o. The Dormition Fast [August 1-14]
4o. The Philip Fast [November 15-December 24]
§2. Strict abstinence is to be observed on the first day of the Great Fast and on Great Friday. Simple abstinence is to be observed on Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.
§3. Simple abstinence or an equivalent penance is to be observed on all Fridays throughout the year.
Latin Church USCCB
- Friday should be in each week something of what Lent is in the
entire year. For this reason we urge all to prepare for that weekly
Easter that comes with each Sunday by freely making of every Friday a
day of self-denial and mortification in prayerful remembrance of the
passion of Jesus Christ. - Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance
which we especially commend to our people for the future observance
of Friday, even though we hereby terminate the traditional law of
abstinence binding under pain of sin, as the sole prescribed means of
observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Brother Vico,
A Byzantine Catholic pastor should feel obligated to offer the Divine Liturgy on all the 12 major Feasts of the year, after Pascha, including others. He should offer the Divine Liturgy daily and we should attend even daily, unless our work/life circumstances prevent it.
As for the fasting etc., my parish priest follows the Orthodox Eastern traditions and simply lets us know what these are in the Sunday bulletins.
“Nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter” should always be the going principle and, as our former parish priest once said, “There should be no liturgical/ritual differences between Orthodox and Eastern Catholics. If we were in an EC parish church and didn’t know that it was, we should see no difference until the commemorations of the hierarchy were heard - and then we would know.”
The Eastern Canon Law that the Orthodox have always had and which we should be following ourselves goes beyond the more lax laws above.
Fasting and liturgical prayer, Holy Communion etc. are all medicine for our souls and the bishops are the “physicians.”
No physician may, without violating his oath to heal the (spiritually) sick), withhold needed medicine from his patients (the people of the flock entrusted to him).
Following, as much as we are able, the full rule of liturgical prayer and fasting of the East, is therefore incumbent upon us all, without referring to this or that bishops’ statement.
The penalty we pay for our laziness and neglect comes in the form of damage to our spiritual growth in Christ our Lord.
Peace!
Alex
5
5Loaves
Guest
Amen!
The benefit of having the CCEO and Codes of particular Churches posted may be that we are reminded of precisely of what you say, Alex, the distance we have gotten in some cases from the traditions of Holy Orthodoxy. And may I add many Orthodox also practice a Lite version, in some cases a very Lite version, of their patrimony as far as attending services, and fasting, prayer, works of mercy. We share that in common with our Orthodox sisters and brothers, too.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
This reminds me of when I was once walking with two acquaintances, one a member of the ROCOR and the other preparing to enter the Orthodox Church in America.
The ROCOR was listening intently to what the future convert was going on about (you know how converts can be
) and then asked him, “So when are you going to join Orthodoxy?”The future convert said, “I’m going to join the OCA next month . . .”
To which the ROCOR fellow, without breaking a smile, replied, “OK, so when are you going to join Orthodoxy?”
Some feel they are more Orthodox than the Orthodox . . .
My only concern is that Rome not busy itself by telling Eastern Christians who observe 15 holydays that they should be observing seven (as a for instance).
Doesn’t Rome have better things to do?
Alex
T
TrueLight
Guest
I guess if you are a Latinized Byzantine Catholic and ascribe to the idea of going to church due to obligation it can be a holy day of obligation…but if you have embraced a Byzantine ethos you go to church on Sundays and Feast days because you have a love for God and desire to worship Him.
Or it can be both!
C
Catherine_Grant
Guest
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