Holy Mass is an obligation of the priesthood to God

[hansgeorg]

True. We were taught the Catechism by memorization by teachers who’d been taught the same. Asking questions was useless, they had no answers. (1)

We learned the 10 commandments by rote but didn’t know what some of them meant. “Thou shall not steal” is easy “Thou shall not commit adultery” less so if you have nobody who’ll tell you what adultery is. Even more difficult was leaning them in French where that commandment was rendered as “Thou shall desire the act of the flesh only within marriage.” Uh?? (2)

1 If that had been true, that is exactly why a man before teaching 1st and 2d Baltimore Catechisms should have in youth already mastered 3d and then go through 4th. And maybe read Aquinas too.

2 Seems the priest who invested in 20 volumes Oxford English Dictionary did a good deed. You could have looked up “desire” and “the act of the flesh” (see “flesh”, one of senses will include “act of”) and “only” and “within” and “marriage”.

Actually I think there was a lot of pests in one generation asking a lot of questions that not only embarrassed previous prudish generation, but were calculated to do so.

If a Catechist was not able to answer the content of VI and IX commandments as “what your parents did in bed in order to make you, you must only do in bed with your wives and husbands when you marry and likewise for desiring it, you must not desire it before you are married or desire to do it with other persons,” it is clearly not a question of understanding lacking in someone who only memorised words, but a probable refusal to go into sidelines that might arouse curiosity.

Dreadful thing before a class raised on all other fronts to have their curiosities aroused, it might be? But that was not the fault of catechists, but of Frankfurt school.

 

[hansgeorg]

The priest is still the final arbiter. Having someone say “Hey, in the summer we take in less than $3000/mo and our expenses are over $6000/mo. Something has to be cut out and salaries, food and utilities can’t be, so perhaps Fr. you need to stop shopping?!” might at least make him stop and think.

You teach the program your diocese uses and questions and answers is not how it’s done. I haven’t been in a parish in decades where Catechism is taught by Q. & A. That pretty much stopped around here 45 years ago. The last people to have learned that way are in their 50s and 60s and not interested in taking on a classroom full of 6 year olds.

There is only the Pastor and those he is able to recruit to teach the program. They are handed a Teacher’s manual and told to go at it. It’s really bad when the person teaching the teen confirmation class is unable to answer the question “How do we know something is a sin?” Her reply, “If you do something and then you feel bad afterwards it was likely a sin.” She was a convert, product of an RCIA program somewhere that had obviously not done the job.

OK. A convert “product of an RCIA program somewhere that had obviously not done the job” is as little suited as a cradle catholic who did not master catechism when given opportunity to catechise teens.

Cutting HER salary might be one idea.

And getting in some oldies who knew the Q & A system, maybe? If they are on old age pensions, they might do it for free?

And having the priest keep book himself might have made him see whether he could or could not afford the twenty volumes.

They might come handy yet. And they will keep their value. Old words in English do not cease to be old words in English because they are no longer used in their old sense or no longer used because replaced by other words.

Since he is into bookshopping, do encourage him to buy all four Baltimore Catechisms and a good xerox machine for printouts. Unless that is already on the asset list.

o-x.fr/kx2 - a link about making print sheets if you cannot afford a professional printing office but have a xerox machine.

 

[Phemie]

OK. A convert “product of an RCIA program somewhere that had obviously not done the job” is as little suited as a cradle catholic who did not master catechism when given opportunity to catechise teens.

Cutting HER salary might be one idea.

I never been in a parish that pays catechists.

And getting in some oldies who knew the Q & A system, maybe? If they are on old age pensions, they might do it for free?

They’d have to, catechists aren’t paid. They just volunteer for the job and get accepted regardless of their competence. No old person is going to volunteer to do this. They feel it’s for the younger people to do.

And having the priest keep book himself might have made him see whether he could or could not afford the twenty volumes.

Ha! That’s a joke. He wanted nothing to do with finances. And we pay a bookkeeping firm to do our books.

They might come handy yet. And they will keep their value. Old words in English do not cease to be old words in English because they are no longer used in their old sense or no longer used because replaced by other words.

This purchase had nothing to do with using the OED, it was all about OWNING the complete OED. There’s a vast difference. Nobody has access to it but him, but he shows it off to all his visitors. Forget the fact that, as a religious, the man took a vow of poverty but has to surround himself with the best of everything. Even had a sauna included in the new house after the Bishop specifically forbid it.

Since he is into bookshopping, do encourage him to buy all four Baltimore Catechisms and a good xerox machine for printouts. Unless that is already on the asset list.

I’d be laughed out of the office. He’s a teacher and his reply would be “Phemie, we don’t teach by rote in this day and age.”

o-x.fr/kx2 - a link about making print sheets if you cannot afford a professional printing office but have a xerox machine.

Oh, we’ve printed off a lot of stuff on our photocopier, but the Baltimore Catechism will never happen unless our Bishop mandates it.

 

[Alex2008]

Just so everyone remembers:

Diocesan Priests DO NOT TAKE A VOW OF POVERTY! Religious order priests/brothers take such a vow. Diocesan Priests promise to live simply and “simply” is never really defined, thus diocesan priests can amass wealth, own a house, buy a car, etc. etc. Notice I said there is no definition and so priests define it individually.

I keep seeing this mistaken inference a lot lately and felt the need to correct it. Note also that when in the Seminary, we are not trained in bookeeping or any other business processes, unfortunately it is something you learn on the fly (with many mistakes made in the learning). I think it was assumed in the past that as an Associate Pastor you would learn from the Pastor you worked with…now you are made a Pastor almost immediately with no chance to learn and more is the pity!

I am surprised to read some things here as when I functioned as a priest, I was responsible (and had to pay for) my own car/insurance, part of my health insurance, and any other living expenses except for food and utilities. If I would have wanted an OED, I would have had to pay for it myself…I’m not sure why the parish would have to pay for such a thing.

Lastly, Pheemie, I sense that you have a lot of anger towards this priest, perhaps it’s time to “bury the hatchet” and move on? I’m just worried that your anger could poison you against all priests. They face enough hatred and anger already!