Holy Orders Expanded

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheMarriedKnight
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TheMarriedKnight

Guest
Holy orders are to my knowledge bishop, priest, and deacon, but there are some sources I have read that state the diaconate isn’t truly a part of holy orders, but rather something to assists holy orders. Is that true? Another question I have is do we need the diaconate? I personally believe that since it’s as biblical as the priesthood, it’s important.
 
Last edited:
TheMarriedKnight said:
Holy orders are to my knowledge bishop, priest, and deacon, but there are some sources I have read that state the diaconate isn’t truly a part of holy orders, but rather something to assists holy orders. Is that true? Another question I have is do we need the diaconate? I personally believe that since it’s as biblical as the priesthood, it’s important.
Click to expand...
The Diaconate IS part of Holy Orders. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken.

Do we need the diaconate? I think the short answer is yes, because when used properly, the Deacons free up the priests to focus on the Sacraments.

However, I think the problems in some places worldwide with the permanent Diaconate program are:
  1. Many people (clergy included) don’t understand what a Deacon is and they treat him like a senior lay volunteer
  2. Not every diocese has a well developed seminary program for their Diaconate program
  3. In some areas, like Poland, they have good seminary numbers, so they fear that a Diaconate program MIGHT reduce their priestly vocations.
  4. Some Deacons (I know of one) only have a Sunday ministry, so those Deacons are not really a help to the parish, pastor or bishop. These Deacons, give priests & bishops a bad taste for the program.
  • NOTE: I’m NOT saying that these Deacons are bad men. Most of them joined when the program was younger and didn’t know what kind of commitment they were getting into. Today, most dioceses (not all, but most) have a better discernment program to help men decern becoming a Deacon.
  1. Finally, many deacons get burned out. Except for the few who are employees of the Church, Deacons are not paid. They are volunteers, but they are also clergy. They have responsibilities to the parish, their ministry, their wives, and their families. It’s really a tough position, and that’s why there are many DEVOUT Catholic men (including many former Protestant pastors) who decide against becoming a deacon.
  • in many parishes, a Deacon can be over or under utilized, which also contributes to burnout.
  • I’ve also seen in a few parishes where the parish (lay) staff has more “power” in the parish than the Deacons. So that can be frustrating too, depending on the dynamic.
HOWEVER, I do support having Deacons, esp when they are used properly.
 
Last edited:
I mean like does the church and community have a use for them?
 
TheMarriedKnight said:
I mean like does the church and community have a use for them?
Click to expand...
Yes, the Church and community benefit a great deal. This is true both for their work in parishes but also in their “ministry of charity”, often in social, educational or health care setting.

But deacons are deacons in all aspects of their life. If a deacon had a secular 9 to 5 job, even if not officially a ministry, he brings and lives the gospel in different ways.
 
TheMarriedKnight said:
I mean like does the church and community have a use for them?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Deacons, esp. the Permanent deacons, help the local pastor by visiting the sick, visiting the elderly, teaching the faith, counseling couples and individuals, working on parish committees and councils, and giving advice to the pastor.

Deacons can assist the priest by blessing houses, going to funeral homes and cemeteries by performing NON-MASS funeral services. They can lead prayer groups, lead public Liturgy of the Hours, Benedictions, Stations of the Cross, etc.

Some are also involved with prison ministry.

The truth is, there are more things Deacons can be doing to assist the pastors. However, the question is only (1) does the pastor realize all the ways his Deacon can help and (2) what does the Deacon have time for?
 
Last edited:
BTW - I would love to see Permanent deacons start to grow within Latin Mass communities.

There are already a few Latin Mass Personal Parishes around the United States that have their own Instituted Acolytes (where the men are instituted currently through the Anglican Use Ordinariate or through one of the few dioceses in the US that will actually install laymen as Instituted Acolytes). These Instituted Acolytes are allowed to serve as subdeacon during the Solemn High Mass. I would personally love to see some of these men also become Permanent Deacons to serve the Latin Mass communities.

God Bless
 
Last edited:
My father is an ordained Catholic deacon of 12 years, he definitely has a use and purpose (and more importantly a calling from God to be a Deacon) in his Church and diocese.
 
TheMarriedKnight said:
What is a subdeacon and why even have them?
Click to expand...
Subdeacons WERE seminarians in their third year of Theological (post-graduate) year.

Subdeacons still vest in the Latin Mass and are still used & vest in the Eastern Catholic liturgies.

However, their role was eliminated in the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite by Pope Paul VI because most parishes didn’t have a sub-deacon serving at their parish.

While the subdeacon was considered the first “major order” they were the last order in rank before receiving the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

Before 1973, the orders were:
  • Porter - minor order (not part of Holy Orders - suppressed in 1973 in the Roman Rite)
  • Lector - minor order (not part of Holy Orders - still exists in Roman Rite)
  • Exorcist - minor order (not part of Holy Orders - suppressed in 1973 in the Roman Rite)
  • Acolyte - minor order (not part of Holy Orders - still exists in Roman Rite)
  • Subdeacon - major order (not part of Holy Orders - suppressed in 1973, liturgical duties transferred to Acolyte and Deacon)
  • Deacon - major order (first level of Holy Orders)
  • Priest - major order (2nd level of Holy Orders)
  • Bishop - fully realized order (3rd level of Holy Orders)
 
Last edited:
If you don’t even know what something (subdeacons) actually is, your asking, “why even have them” is jarring.

Because the prefix ‘sub’ (Latin for ‘under’) gives something of a clue.

Often people might think that something ‘under’ another means it isn’t so important, or that it doesn’t need to exist.

They might forget that a foundation—something ‘under’ something else—can vitally affect what stands on that foundation.
 
I can share that at my parish (and in my diocese, for that matter) the deacons are VERY active.

They work with the various parish ministries, do the marriage prep, handle prison ministry, handle most of the visits to the sick, administer most of the baptisms, and witness many (most?) weddings as well as assisting Sunday and weekday Masses.

Our pastor is the only priest assigned to our parish (we have priests who live at the seminary next door and one married priest who lives within our parish boundaries but is not assigned to us who help with Masses) so we depend heavily on our deacons so that our pastor can do the things only a priest can do.
 
TheMarriedKnight said:
What is a subdeacon and why even have them?
Click to expand...
It became the instituted acolyte in the Ordinary Form (Latin Church).
The acolyte is instituted for service at the altar and to assist the Priest and Deacon. It is his place principally to prepare the altar and the sacred vessels and, if necessary, to distribute the Eucharist to the faithful as an extraordinary minister.

Cf. Code of Canon Law, can. 910 §2; cf. also the Interdicasterial Instruction on certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the sacred ministry of Priests, Ecclesiae de mysterio, August 15, 1997, art. 8: Acta Apostolicae Sedis 89 (1997),
p. 871.
http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wor...uction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-3.cfm
Click to expand...
Catholic Encyclopedia
The duties of a subdeacon are to serve the deacon at Mass; to prepare the bread and wine and sacred vessels for the Holy Sacrifice; to present the chalice and paten at the Offertory, and pour water into the wine for the Eucharist; to chant the Epistles solemnly; to wash the sacred linen. In the Greek Church, subdeacons prepare the chalice at the prothesis and guard the gates of the sanctuary during the Holy Sacrifice. In the ancient Roman Church, the subdeacons administered in great part the temporal goods of the Holy See and were often employed on important missions by the popes. A candidate for the subdiaconate must have been confirmed and have received minor orders. He must have the knowledge befitting his grade in the Church and have entered on his twenty-second year. He must also have acquired a title to orders. After ordination, he is bound to celibacy and to the recitation of the Divine Office.
Click to expand...
Fanning, W. (1912). Subdeacon. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14320a.htm
 
Last edited:
I really loved that answer. I’m personally discerning a vocation to the permanent diaconate after I’m married and it helps. The amount of detail and time you put into was amazing.
 
Loved that answer, something the shows your right, even more, is that deacons are as biblical as priests.
 
TheMarriedKnight said:
Another question I have is do we need the diaconate?
Click to expand...
If you mean do we need a permanent diaconate, the answer is obviously no. The Church’s greatest period of expansion took place when in effect the diaconate was an apprenticeship to the priesthood.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top