Holy Orders For Women--Women Deacons?

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A friend was trying to argue that women could (and should) be priests because “they were ordained as deacons and priests in the early church.” As evidence, she gave me this website:
womenpriests.org/pordain.asp
How can I debunk this?
 
This has been done to death in the past. Search ‘women deacons’ in the forum search. God bless.
 
First of all-Im sorry that your friend has been deceived.

I looked at the site and though i found nothing new, it still made me feel frustrated and sad.

There may have been ordination of women to the ministry of deaconess but…
  1. That’s not the priesthood
  2. It was for the sake of decorum-women were disrobed as were men to be baptized.
  3. This falls under the category"anyone" can baptize.
  4. i once did an emergency baptism but Im not a deacon or priest(i acted as an extraordinary minister)-like today women can be “extra-ordinary” ministers of the Eucharist(feminists a thousand years from now will say well back in the 20-21st century women were known to distribute Communion). And the reply should be then as it is today about ancient deaconesses …So What!
As far as priesthood goes…they are starting with a faulty, non-Catholic premise: that the Magisterium of the Church doesn’t matter. In the end every Protestant fell into this same heresy.

Like the strategy of the gay agenda…
  1. They are flooding our schools(even Catholic schools) with people they teach.
  2. They are trying to normalize the concept of women preists
    by
    a. depicting Last supper with women in art(the other day i was so excited because I purchased “The Gospel of John” video on clearance to use in my highschool religion class. I pre-viewed it and it was pretty good until the Wedding at cana -Jesus calls Mary Maddam instead of “woman”. Later - at the Last Supper guess who sitting with the 12? …that’s right Mary Magdalene, all ready with her fork and napkin, licking her lips waiting to receive the meal oh and also the Ordination to the priesthood.
The book Da Vinci Code also did this(though with out any subtlety)

They want to create an image in the mind of (people who have no catechesis) that the Last Supper was with women.

last point-even if women were there to serve. It doesn’t mean they accidently received Holy Orders.

Check this out…
splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/
scroll down to the article posted on April 19.👍
 
this really puzzles me that women even want to still be called a catholic but then ask for women priests.

IMHO, its pretty simple

If you want to remain Catholic, there are no women priests…

If you are a woman and feel you need to be ordained, switch religions.

Black and white to me.
 
this really puzzles me that women even want to still be called a catholic but then ask for women priests.

IMHO, its pretty simple

If you want to remain Catholic, there are no women priests…

If you are a woman and feel you need to be ordained, switch religions.

Black and white to me.
Nice Blog… As I pointed out in the prev. post…there is an **organized agenda…**Karl Keating(A Catholic Pau Revere) discusses this in “wolves in sheeps clothing”.

It’s not that they don’t get it (they are smart). It is sinister.
 
Nice Blog… As I pointed out in the prev. post…there is an **organized agenda…**Karl Keating(A Catholic Pau Revere) discusses this in “wolves in sheeps clothing”.

It’s not that they don’t get it (they are smart). It is sinister.
Thanks,

Wouldn’t any organized agenda fail, as the church is not a democracy,

sure people can petition for things til the cows come home, rarely do they get what they want, we have become too Americanized in our thinking of the church, we don’t really have a RIGHT to anything but the sacraments, we should be listening to God for our vocation, not abiding by any other “agenda”.

As for the wolves in sheeps clothing, its been going on for ages, but the gates of hell will not prevail!
 
A friend was trying to argue that women could (and should) be priests because “they were ordained as deacons and priests in the early church.” As evidence, she gave me this website:
womenpriests.org/pordain.asp
How can I debunk this?
I don’t know that you’ll get very far, for a couple of reasons.

One, she is already convinced that women can/should be ordained - and this didn’t just happen overnight from this website.

Two, his scholarly research shows that from what we know about these matters in the early church, a rite was performed on women which was nearly identical to the rite of ordination for deacons. Considering the work that we know these women would have done (baptisms, catechesis, home visits, etc) is work that we could properly identify with the diaconate today, the evidence strongly suggests that women were, in fact, ordained to the diaconate. The logical extension of this is that it would debunk the assertion that women somehow cannot be configured to Christ in the way that Holy Orders does it; therefore, there is nothing preventing the church from ordaining women to priesthood.
 
Thanks,

Wouldn’t any organized agenda fail, as the church is not a democracy,

Ultimately, Yes, but they are bringing down alot of confused people and are a source of confusion.

sure people can petition for things til the cows come home, rarely do they get what they want, we have become too Americanized in our thinking of the church, we don’t really have a RIGHT to anything but the sacraments, we should be listening to God for our vocation, not abiding by any other “agenda”.

I couldn’t agree with you more but these people are banking on the fact that we are thinking as Americans(democratic) not as Catholics(hierarchic).

As for the wolves in sheeps clothing, its been going on for ages, but the gates of hell will not prevail!
Someone on EWTN once said, “The gates of hell will not prevail” apllies to the universal Church(as a remnant) it’s not a guarantee the the Church in America will always be healthy.
 
Women want “equality” in the Church because, “the Church is oppressive for women.” What nonsense! you don’t see men saying, “I want to be a nun.” One of my favorite sayings-These people act more on emotion than logic and faith.

If they want to be ordained, go to Canterbury.

At my parish, our volunteer organizer/second in command is a very liberal nun. She actually got some families to leave the parish because she told them the Catechism has no bearing on truth and the true Church. One other time she complained openly that she couldn’t say Mass. Such division is what is weakening the American Church. And to think, people don’t know what is causing the Vocations shortage. . .🤷
 
…we don’t really have a RIGHT to anything but the sacraments, we should be listening to God for our vocation…
You see, for those who struggle with peace on this issue (and for their family and pastoral ministers), it’s not so “Black and White” after all. I believe that the high majority of people who advocate for women’s ordination are not out to destroy the church. They are just people who do listen to God for their vocation, and in their discernment process have discovered that God could call women to priesthood through a similar journey of discernment.

I think your humble opinion should consider this: For a woman in particular who heard the call, it would be very painful. She’d either have to choose to turn away from her true vocation and stay in the Catholic Church who gave it to her (but will not recognize it), or leave the church that she loves to ‘satisfy’ that calling in a church that does not have the fullness of the priesthood. Either way, it’s disintegrating, painful, and damaging. When one of us is hurt, we all hurt.

I’m glad to hear you say that the faithful have a RIGHT to the sacraments. Holy Orders is a sacrament.
 
I don’t know that you’ll get very far, for a couple of reasons.

One, she is already convinced that women can/should be ordained - and this didn’t just happen overnight from this website.

Two, his scholarly research shows that from what we know about these matters in the early church, a rite was performed on women which was nearly identical to the rite of ordination for deacons. Considering the work that we know these women would have done (baptisms, catechesis, home visits, etc) is work that we could properly identify with the diaconate today, the evidence strongly suggests that women were, in fact, ordained to the diaconate. The logical extension of this is that it would debunk the assertion that women somehow cannot be configured to Christ in the way that Holy Orders does it; therefore, there is nothing preventing the church from ordaining women to priesthood.
I think its a pretty big stretch to call links to a few heretical websites containing flimsy evidence “scholarly research.” It’s not exactly clear from what evidence we have that these deaconessees were actually held by the early Church to be members of the ordained diaconate established by Christ. Some historians take they viewpoint that they were part of the ordained diaconate, some believe they had their own ministry, created by the Church comparable to lector or acolyte, which was not part of Holy Orders. But for Catholics, its pretty simple:

Compendium, Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2006
Holy Orders
333 Who can receive this sacrament?
1577-1578 This sacrament can only be validly received by a baptized man.
1598 The Church recognizes herself as bound by this choice made by the Lord Himself. No one can demand to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders, but must be judged suitable for the ministry by the authorities of the Church.

You’ll notice that the above makes no distinction between the different grades of holy orders regarding who can receive them. It plainly says only men can receive holy orders. That includes the diaconate.
 
I think your humble opinion should consider this: For a woman in particular who heard the call, it would be very painful. She’d either have to choose to turn away from her true vocation and stay in the Catholic Church who gave it to her (but will not recognize it), or leave the church that she loves to ‘satisfy’ that calling in a church that does not have the fullness of the priesthood.
Tell her to take it up with Jesus Christ.
 
Women want “equality” in the Church because, “the Church is oppressive for women.” What nonsense! you don’t see men saying, “I want to be a nun.”
I have heard this, from the mouth of my very own bishop (who is really good, btw). That’s how his roundabout vocation story started. He really wanted to be like the nuns he admired growing up, and didn’t really feel called to priesthood, but that’s what you were supposed to do if you were a guy who wanted to serve the church, so he entered the seminary. He was sent to Conception Abbey Seminary, where he found he liked the life of the monks (the male nuns he had never seen) more than the diocesan priesthood he was being educated for. So he entered there, and out of obedience he became a priest, and again out of obedience accepted his monastery’s election to abbot, and then finally, Rome’s call to make him a bishop.
 
You see, for those who struggle with peace on this issue (and for their family and pastoral ministers), it’s not so “Black and White” after all. I believe that the high majority of people who advocate for women’s ordination are not out to destroy the church. They are just people who do listen to God for their vocation, and in their discernment process have discovered that God could call women to priesthood through a similar journey of discernment.

I think your humble opinion should consider this: For a woman in particular who heard the call, it would be very painful. She’d either have to choose to turn away from her true vocation and stay in the Catholic Church who gave it to her (but will not recognize it), or leave the church that she loves to ‘satisfy’ that calling in a church that does not have the fullness of the priesthood. Either way, it’s disintegrating, painful, and damaging. When one of us is hurt, we all hurt.

I’m glad to hear you say that the faithful have a RIGHT to the sacraments. Holy Orders is a sacrament.
Im glad you have enough decency to not label yourself Catholic in your profile.Disintegrating, Painful and Damaging-Your’re right. That’s why the Pope has said that we are not even to debate this further.(As for me, Rome has spoken and Im done).
 
Im glad you have enough decency to not label yourself Catholic in your profile.Disintegrating, Painful and Damaging-Your’re right. That’s why the Pope has said that we are not even to debate this further.(As for me, Rome has spoken and Im done).
Sorry. I’ve never looked at my profile. We’ll have to fix that.
 
I guess, I don’t believe that God’s True Vocation for a person would lead them to where it would not be possible to live out that vocation
 
So much for the decency.

a recommended prefix for Catholics who advocate women priesthood…

Kinda-Catholic
sorta-Catholic
unhappy-Catholic
**oppressed-**Catholic
disillusioned-Catholic
Soon to be ex-Catholic
👍
 
So much for the decency.
I apologize if my responses have been indecent, but the more and more I think about it they only way to deal with manifest heresy is to call it out for what it is, and state the obvious: Our Lord called only men to Holy Orders, as plainly recorded in Scripture.
 
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