Holy Pictures in Tolstoy literature

[residentcheese]

Hello,

Last fall I read a highly abridged version of War and Peace, and am now half way through Anna Kerenina. In both I read many references to “the holy pictures” usually in a room or maybe carried by someone.

What are these holy pictures? Are they standard picture owned by every Russian Orthodox, or are they pictures of Christ and saints, like icons, that everyone just happens to have? It just seems that when characters enter a room, special attention is made by the narrator to point out that they looked around for “the holy picture” or “the hly pictures”

I am assuming, for the sake of my reading, it is a picture of Christ, maybe crucified.

Thanks
Matthew

P.S. I put it in this forum because I wasn’t sure where it should go. All I know is Russia is mostly Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Volodymyr]

Icons

This must be translation of ikona which is image. Every believer has in house an ikona corner, almost all processions carry ikona . There are on this site several ikona-painters who know great deal about such images. But for religious perspective, I think you would be better to read Dostoyevsky than to read Tolstoy. Anna Karenina is interesting story of evil, but is more interesting perspective on evil and Christianity - in Crime and Punishment or Brothers Karamazov of Dostoyevsky! But in these books are also many portrayals of Holy Orthodoxy, icons, monks.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

If you are going to read War and Peace, read the real War and Peace, not an abridged version!

I guess it’s too late.

Anyway, I seem to recall Andrei’s icon being described somewhere, but I can’t recall exactly what it was. My impression is that it was of transitory importance, the kind of thing he would have layed aside in his later stages of horrible Tolstoyan enlightenment.

Certainly icons are very prominent in Eastern Christian practice, so it’s not surprising to find them recurring in pre-communist Russian literature.

Both Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky have their problematic sides, even if you lay aside their anti-Catholicism or seeming anti-Catholicism (and especially anti-Jesuit sentiments, interestingly enough), which is a subject both authors were clearly pretty ignorant about- though Dostoyevsky makes his hero Alexei half defend Catholics against his more anti-Catholic brother Ivan in The Brothers Karamazov, which makes me think the author was internally conflicted on the issue.

At the same time both can be worthwhile reading, perhaps especially Dostoyevsky. Tolstoy is a great storyteller when he wants to be but the meaning behind his stories is horrible. Dostoyevsky seems to have been one of those tortured existentialists, and so he can be quite thought-provoking in a more spiritually helpful way.

 

[Vico]

Hello,

Last fall I read a highly abridged version of War and Peace, and am now half way through Anna Kerenina. In both I read many references to “the holy pictures” usually in a room or maybe carried by someone.

What are these holy pictures? Are they standard picture owned by every Russian Orthodox, or are they pictures of Christ and saints, like icons, that everyone just happens to have? It just seems that when characters enter a room, special attention is made by the narrator to point out that they looked around for “the holy picture” or “the hly pictures”

I am assuming, for the sake of my reading, it is a picture of Christ, maybe crucified.

Thanks
Matthew

P.S. I put it in this forum because I wasn’t sure where it should go. All I know is Russia is mostly Eastern Orthodox.

Here is an example from Part 4, Chapter 3, of Anna Kerenina:

«В самой церкви уже были зажжены обе люстры и все свечи у местных образов.»
“v samoj cerkvi uže byli zažženy obe lûstry i vse sveči u mestnyh obrazov.”

This is translated in one version as: Inside the church both lusters were already lighted, and all the candles before the holy pictures.

But the word «образов» (obrazov) means images. He did not use «икона» (ikona) but one would understand that to be the meaning knowning the type of church.

 

[Volodymyr]

Тогда Вы говорите по русски - как Вы знаете образ русское слово -** икона** греческое слово. В чём задача??

I am confuse - you speak Russian I think - then you know obraz is a Russian word for Image and Ikona is a Greek word - there is no problem in this. In this case meaning same thing, different languages. In Russian and Ukrainian are many religious words from Greek even if similar actual Russian/Ukrainian word can also be used. In that same sentence you write about - lustres - Люстры Russian word, probably original French, but here it used to mean паникадило (panikadilo) - which is from Greek word - πολυκάνδηλον — многосвечие. But in Church is called by Greek name more often, since Greek are origin of Russian Church.

 

[Vico]

Тогда Вы говорите по русски - как Вы знаете образ русское слово -** икона** греческое слово. В чём задача??

I am confuse - you speak Russian I think - then you know obraz is a Russian word for Image and Ikona is a Greek word - there is no problem in this. In this case meaning same thing, different languages. In Russian and Ukrainian are many religious words from Greek even if similar actual Russian/Ukrainian word can also be used. In that same sentence you write about - lustres - Люстры Russian word, probably original French, but here it used to mean паникадило (panikadilo) - which is from Greek word - πολυκάνδηλον — многосвечие. But in Church is called by Greek name more often, since Greek are origin of Russian Church.

Приносим свои извинения за путаницу. Л. Н. Толстой “образ” на “святой образ”. Мой русский язык в школе.

I am thinking that the English translation added the word “holy” to help the reader understand, but that word “holy” is not present in the original.

Very interesting, what you said about the Люстры = plural of French lustre
and паникадило = English icon-lamps would be a candelabra or chandelier. You know much more about the languages than I do.

 

[Volodymyr]

Никакая проблема! Ты образованный человек! Хорошо говоришь по русски - и только учился в школе!! Тоже тебе интересно православие?? Теперь тебе надо изучать славнянский язык - тогда понимаешь службы и молитвы !!

Your Russian is good!

 

[Vico]

Никакая проблема! Ты образованный человек! Хорошо говоришь по русски - и только учился в школе!! Тоже тебе интересно православие?? Теперь тебе надо изучать славнянский язык - тогда понимаешь службы и молитвы !!

Your russian is good!

К кому-то там книги “Славянский язык для всех”?

 

[Volodymyr]

Не понял! Кому и где такая книга?? Обычная кника для мирян Славянская Грамота. Очень интересная!

velikigrad.ru/search/goods/books/2859.html

 

[Catherine_Grant]

Note from Moderator:

In order to be courteous and charitable to all who are reading the conversation, please provide English translations for words, phrases or dialogue which is in a foreign language. Thank you!

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine Grant
Eastern Catholicism Moderator

 

[Vico]

К кому-то там книги “Славянский язык для всех”?

Literal translation is: Who out there [has such a] book “Slavonic language for all”?

(Drawing a parallel to an old series for Russian called “Russian language for all”.)
a parallel to an old series for Russian called “Russian language for all”.)

Earlier post:

Apologize for any confusion. Leo Tolstoy: “image” for the “holy image.” My Russian language [is] from school.

Volodymyr wrote:

No problem! You’re an educated man! Well you say in Russian - and only in high school! Also you’re interested Orthodoxy? Now you need to learn Slavonic language - then you understand the service and prayers!

 

[Aramis]

Тогда Вы говорите по русски - как Вы знаете образ русское слово -** икона** греческое слово. В чём задача??

I am confuse - you speak Russian I think - then you know obraz is a Russian word for Image and Ikona is a Greek word - there is no problem in this. In this case meaning same thing, different languages. In Russian and Ukrainian are many religious words from Greek even if similar actual Russian/Ukrainian word can also be used. In that same sentence you write about - lustres - Люстры Russian word, probably original French, but here it used to mean паникадило (panikadilo) - which is from Greek word - πολυκάνδηλον — многосвечие. But in Church is called by Greek name more often, since Greek are origin of Russian Church.

Ikona (Икона) is a borrowed term in russian; the greek also lack the ending a, as does the English, both being “icon” (well, εικών, according to google translate). The a at the end in russian is very much a gender ending.

And εικών means “image” - but the connotation of образ is any image, while икона is only an image directly representing something else, as in православные икони, святи икони, икона программы, especially something through which action occurs. The same is true in English.