Holy Spirit guide all truth

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Darryl_B

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I read on a previous thread where an ex-Catholic made the claim that they are being led by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

That claim is made from an individualistic perspective, the Holy Spirit will guide me into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth.

But what I see is thousands of protestant denominations all being supposedly led by the Holy Spirit into different truths, which seems to contradict the actual purpose of the Holy Spirit.

Is then, the Holy Spirit guiding into all truth a collective guiding, ie the Church, or does the Holy Spirit operate at an individualistic level and guide each one of us individually into truth?

Was the promise to you and to me, or was the promise to the communion?
 
Darryl_B said:
I read on a previous thread where an ex-Catholic made the claim that they are being led by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

That claim is made from an individualistic perspective, the Holy Spirit will guide me into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth.

But what I see is thousands of protestant denominations all being supposedly led by the Holy Spirit into different truths, which seems to contradict the actual purpose of the Holy Spirit.

Is then, the Holy Spirit guiding into all truth a collective guiding, ie the Church, or does the Holy Spirit operate at an individualistic level and guide each one of us individually into truth?

Was the promise to you and to me, or was the promise to the communion?
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There is a third option, and this is the one that has been on my mind. The verse to which you referred is John 16:13, which is part of the Upper Room Discourse. At this time Jesus was talking to His Apostles, and I find it very likely that the “you” in that verse referred only to them. It is for sure that the splintering consequences of the idea that each one of us has his/her own personal insights from the Holy Spirit runs completely counter to Jesus’ prayer for unity in the next chapter.
 
DaveBj said:
There is a third option, and this is the one that has been on my mind. The verse to which you referred is John 16:13, which is part of the Upper Room Discourse. At this time Jesus was talking to His Apostles, and I find it very likely that the “you” in that verse referred only to them. It is for sure that the splintering consequences of the idea that each one of us has his/her own personal insights from the Holy Spirit runs completely counter to Jesus’ prayer for unity in the next chapter.
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Yes, context, context, context…

Whenever Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide people, he was talking either specifically to the Apostles, or to the disciples who had gathered as a group.

Jesus never told an individual that the Holy Spirit would guide them, never spoke those words to “the crowd”, to “the greeks”, to Roman centurions, to samaritans, to individual Jews, or to any individual or group other than the Apostles or the disciples gathered as a group.

Whenever Jesus opens his mouth, we have to know who his audience is.

-Tim-
 
Darryl_B said:
I read on a previous thread where an ex-Catholic made the claim that they are being led by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

That claim is made from an individualistic perspective, the Holy Spirit will guide me into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth.

But what I see is thousands of protestant denominations all being supposedly led by the Holy Spirit into different truths, which seems to contradict the actual purpose of the Holy Spirit.

Is then, the Holy Spirit guiding into all truth a collective guiding, ie the Church, or does the Holy Spirit operate at an individualistic level and guide each one of us individually into truth?

Was the promise to you and to me, or was the promise to the communion?
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Here’s a few thoughts. (be sure to open the links for context)

[John 17:20-23 (Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 17) consider these passages as the Divine Will telling us exactly what the will of God is. Is there any room for division here? No. None. Unity is absolutely perfect. Perfect Unity between the apostles themselves, and perfect unity with those they bring to faith, i.e. the Church Jesus builds on Peter [Matthew 16:16-19 (Douay-Rheims Bible, Matthew Chapter 16) . There is no other plan. That’s it for all eternity… And it’s the same in heaven. Those who maintain that unity are doing and living in, the will of God

[John 16:12-15 (Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 16) the HS receives and teaches only what comes from Jesus. Is the HS going to teach division from the Church Jesus establishes, the Catholic Church? Nope! Division from the Catholic Church is contrary to the Divine Will.

Therefore, when someone says they are being led by the HS away from the Catholic Church,
  • they show they are ignorant of scripture
  • and they aren’t listening to the HS, they are listining to the one who specializes in division, Satan.
 
DaveBj said:
There is a third option, and this is the one that has been on my mind. The verse to which you referred is John 16:13, which is part of the Upper Room Discourse. At this time Jesus was talking to His Apostles, and I find it very likely that the “you” in that verse referred only to them.
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👍

Jesus was speaking to the proto-magisterium.
 
Darryl_B said:
I read on a previous thread where an ex-Catholic made the claim that they are being led by the Holy Spirit into all truth.

That claim is made from an individualistic perspective, the Holy Spirit will guide me into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth, and the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth.

But what I see is thousands of protestant denominations all being supposedly led by the Holy Spirit into different truths, which seems to contradict the actual purpose of the Holy Spirit.

Is then, the Holy Spirit guiding into all truth a collective guiding, ie the Church, or does the Holy Spirit operate at an individualistic level and guide each one of us individually into truth?

Was the promise to you and to me, or was the promise to the communion?
Click to expand...
Well…look at this passage:

Then from 1John 4… Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world……………6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Does the “we” and “us” refer to everyone…thereby everyone determines the truth for themselves?

Or does the “we” and “us” refer only to specific men called to the ministry? The Apostles and their successors, the bishops?
 
Bryan Cross responds to Mark Galli, the senior managing editor of Christianity Today, who wrote:
“We don’t need a magisterium. We already have a Lord, who told us that not even the gates of Hades (whose landlord loves to sows confusion in the church!) will prevail against the church. In short, we don’t need premature closure as much as we need persevering confidence that the Spirit will lead us into all the truth we need, when we need it.” Mark Galli
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Mr. Cross explains that:
Christ’s promise concerning His Spirit leading men into all truth is not a promise that the Spirit will guide private interpretation or private bosom-burning into all truth. It provides no ground for certainty “that I am being guided into all truth” for those persons separated from the magisterium and following their own interpretation of Scripture along with others who share that interpretation. Christ’s promise that the Spirit will guide “you” into all truth has been understood in the visible Church as a promise that the Spirit will lead the Church through the magisterium He established. That is precisely how we can have confidence to know that we are being led by the Holy Spirit, and not co-opting the Spirit to sanction our own private interpretation or subjective bosom-burning.
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Read the entire article here:

calledtocommunion.com/2011/11/we-dont-need-no-magisterium-a-reply-to-christianity-todays-mark-galli/#identifier_1_10014
 
Catholics dont have the spirit. It takes a super natural act of God for someone to get the spirit
 
Psalm_51 said:
Bryan Cross responds to Mark Galli, the senior managing editor of Christianity Today, who wrote:

Mr. Cross explains that:

Read the entire article here:

calledtocommunion.com/2011/11/we-dont-need-no-magisterium-a-reply-to-christianity-todays-mark-galli/#identifier_1_10014
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I would also like to thank you for drawing my attention to the posts of pablope and steve b. I somehow missed them at the time thinking the thread had lost momentum and I had not received notification that there were new posts.

Now that I read them too, I understand things a whole lot more, so thanks, and thanks to them too for having answers for me.
 
Darryl_B said:
Thank you for that link. I have learned much from it.
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You’re welcome!

Catholic convert here in 2005. Still learning. Called To Communion website is one of the best places to learn about and to delve into the deeper waters of the Catholic faith.
 
Darryl_B said:
I would also like to thank you for drawing my attention to the posts of pablope and steve b. I somehow missed them at the time thinking the thread had lost momentum and I had not received notification that there were new posts.

Now that I read them too, I understand things a whole lot more, so thanks, and thanks to them too for having answers for me.
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No problem. God bless.
 
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