Holy Spirit has Female gender ... Bible suggests

[BRB]

I’ve always felt that H.S. had ‘replaced’ my earthly mom. The first time I saw mom after my conversion … I instinctively knew her role in my life had been superceded by 24-7 H.S. presence.

Recently I heard Scott Hahn give a talk on this subject … and he covers it in Chp. 10 of his book First Comes Love. He proposes that OT & NT scriptures support a strong female (creative) aspect to the H.S. He also mentions that many Catholic philosophers and theologians have held this belief in past. He also states that Pope Benedict has written some about this subject … in support of.

It makes perfect sense to me. In the beginning, the H.S. moved over the waters … and life was created. Man/Women are created in the image of God … thus, the Trinity must have female characteristics. John was intrusted with taking Mary as his Mother … John is the most Spiritual one of the NT. Gospel of John, 3 books of John, and Revelations are non-stop testimony to power and manifestations of H.S. John wrote his gospel last … in his final years. He had read the other gospels and attested to their truth and accuracy … yet, he felt they didn’t emphasize the H.S. enough. Thus, he wrote his own account … emphasizing what he thought was key importantance.

As Christians, we are Rebirthed into the H.S. … a generative/female process. The Church (led by H.S.) is the bride of Christ. Christians individually are spiritually married to Christ … via H.S. [especially true for celibate Priests ! ]

Who has the most love for us … humanly speaking ? Always is mom … right ? Dr. Mom has the touch that heals. At confirmation we are touched by hands … and H.S. enters us by touch. Even earlier at Baptism, we are first healed by H.S.

God is Love. God is H.S. Thus, could we not say the H.S.
Personage of Trinity] … possesses most especially female gender ?

Christianity is all about family. God is family Father, Son, and perhaps Mother ? ]. Isn’t Mary the Mother of Jesus and Mother of the Church ? Why was she given this role … if not to show the feminine aspects of God … and to complete the family portrait ?

I’m not saying that Mary represents the H.S. … because H.S. preceeded her. But, she symbolizes the female nature of God and clearly bestowed much H.S. upon the apostle John. Thus, he put her in Revelations … in the Queen role … as head of Church.

Can anyone find scriptures that contradict or would tend to disprove this belief of many former and modern day Catholic theologians ?

 

[MarcoPolo]

I skimmed your post and have heard this, but I don’t think Scott Hahn says the Spirit has “gender” but rather maternal qualities, no? After all, God has no gender either.

 

[BRB]

, God has no gender either.

How do we know about the lack of gender ?

Yes, Bible teaches God is Spirit … and to worship in spirit & truth.

But, John pictures God in heaven as perhaps male … the ancient of days. God calls Himself Father.
And Son Jesus … is clearly male sex.

We are made male/female … in image of God. If God was only Spirit … would He have an image ?

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I skimmed your post and have heard this, but I don’t think Scott Hahn says the Spirit has “gender” but rather maternal qualities, no? After all, God has no gender either.

Neither God or the Holy Spirit has any defined gender.

 

[MarcoPolo]

How do we know about the lack of gender ?

The incarnate Christ certainly had male gender. However, the 1st person of the Trinity does not, nor does the 3rd. The term Father is a characteristic definition apart from genetical. This all sounds like a semantic issue of course.

 

[BRB]

The incarnate Christ certainly had male gender. However, the 1st person of the Trinity does not, nor does the 3rd. The term Father is a characteristic definition apart from genetical. This all sounds like a semantic issue of course.

Rev. 1:13-16 the Son]

and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; and his eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet … his voice … his right hand … his mouth … his face was like the sun shining in full strength.

Rev 4: 2-9 the Father]

At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne ! And he who sat there appeared like jasper and carnelian, and round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne … the four living creatures … they never cease to sing, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, … giving thanks to him who is seated on the throne …

This would be God the Father — because in his right hand is the scroll sealed with 7 seals … that only Lamb slain [Christ] can open.

 

[Super_Grover]

Neither God or the Holy Spirit has any defined gender.

Whether God or the Holy Spirit in reality have a gender as we would think of it, I doubt it’s correct to say that neither has a defined gender. It seems clear that God chose to reveal himself as a Father. He also chose to reveal our Savior as a man in the form of Jesus. Jesus indisputably refers to his Father in Heaven.

As far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, I have always had the sense (and I certainly could be wrong) that the Holy Spirit was lacking in gender and lacking in a personality as we would think of the term. One might argue that the Holy Spirit has a male quality because it was the Holy Spirit who caused the conception of Jesus in Mary’s womb. But that is probably looking at it too much through the prism of human sexuality. Has anyone who relates an experience of a very strong possession by the Holy Spirit ever reported a sense of gender?

We might only be able to speculate as to why God chose to reveal both Himself and the Eternally Begotten in the masculine, but we cannot deny that he did so. There are reasons (and we will never know all of them) that God chose to reveal himself in this way. But our experience of God is, by design, relational. We relate to Him as an other, like a child to father. This is an important distinction between Christianity and the Eastern practices (and techniques) and some New Age variations of Eastern practices that seek experiences of oneness with all that is, without reference to gender and breaking down any “otherness.”

We may not know why He revealed himself as He did, but we had best think of Him and relate to Him in the manner in which He intended.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Rev 4: 2-9 the Father]

At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne ! And he who sat there appeared like jasper and carnelian, and round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne … the four living creatures … they never cease to sing, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, … giving thanks to him who is seated on the throne …

To avoid confusion, are you asserting that God has biological gender? Or just the nature of metaphorical “Father”?

 

[BRB]

To avoid confusion, are you asserting that God has biological gender? Or just the nature of metaphorical “Father”?

The scriptures in Rev. that describe the Father and Son … only give us descriptions of two Males outward appearances. The bodies are clothed in stone [for the Father] & in a robe [for the Son].

Clearly Mary/Joseph would of known if Jesus was anatomically male sexed, the Apostles may of also had some hint of.

But, for the Father … no one has a clue except the Trinity.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Maybe these answers by Catholic Answers Apologists will help with God’s and the Holy Spirit’s nature.

Does God have a gender?

Can the Holy Spirit a woman?

 

[BRB]

Maybe these answers by Catholic Answers Apologists will help with God’s and the Holy Spirit’s nature.

Does God have a gender?

Can the Holy Spirit a woman?

I read them both. Pretty weak answers.

I prefer Scott Hahn and the Pope’s viewpoints. Also, I think Mary someday might have something to tell us about the subject.

 

[Contarini]

How do we know about the lack of gender ?

Yes, Bible teaches God is Spirit … and to worship in spirit & truth.

But, John pictures God in heaven as perhaps male … the ancient of days. God calls Himself Father.
And Son Jesus … is clearly male sex.

We are made male/female … in image of God. If God was only Spirit … would He have an image ?

Yes. It is the clearly defined teaching of Christian tradition that God is pure spirit and has no gender or other bodily attributes. As our Anglican 39 Articles put it, God is a spirit “without body, parts, or passions.” Humans are made in God’s image because they have reason and will, not because they have a particular bodily shape. What you are suggesting is the heresy of “anthropomorphism” and was condemned in the fourth century.

Edwin

 

[RobbyS]

Yes. It is the clearly defined teaching of Christian tradition that God is pure spirit and has no gender or other bodily attributes. As our Anglican 39 Articles put it, God is a spirit “without body, parts, or passions.” Humans are made in God’s image because they have reason and will, not because they have a particular bodily shape. What you are suggesting is the heresy of “anthropomorphism” and was condemned in the fourth century.

Edwin

Very good point. All the talk about “Mother God” is a kind of anthropomorphism. Male and female are two sides of the same coin, and “in heaven” we shall be neither male nor female–nor neuter for that matter. The qualities that we humans have are both masculine and feminine. Bit in accordance with the principle of complmentarily, a man and woman come together to be one, each providing what the other lacks but also providing what they both possess.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I read them both. Pretty weak answers.

I prefer Scott Hahn and the Pope’s viewpoints. Also, I think Mary someday might have something to tell us about the subject.

Could you quote me what Scott Hahn and the Pope say exactly?

 

[BRB]

." Humans are made in God’s image because they have reason and will, not because they have a particular bodily shape. What you are suggesting is the heresy of “anthropomorphism” and was condemned in the fourth century.

Edwin

Uh … lets be reasonable !

Well I guess Christ has yet to come to earth ? And, perhaps John just had a vivid dream of heaven … and was not caught up by H.S. to receive the Revelations ?

Remember … Christianity is based on both faith & reason.

 

[BRB]

God is pure spirit and has no gender or other bodily attributes.
Edwin

I don’t believe the OT Jews perceived it this way. They believed if one saw God … he would surely die.

They took the Genesis account of man/women being made in image of God literally.

Moses was hidden in the cleft of the rock as God walked past.

 

[Seraphim25]

First off give thanks To the God of glory the Father and of his Begotten son Jesus Christ and to the Holy Spirit!
Brothers and sisters in Christ: God can not be compared with earthly material or eloquence. God is spirit and thus we do not know exactly. John and Ezekiel both had powerful experiences with the glory of God. God as Father is the literal attribute at which God cares for his creation. God the father willed creation and it came into being for him. God the Son manifested that will and thus created everything for himself. and Likewise the holy spirit. The Holy Spirit is an individual just like the Father and the Son. The trinity is housed in magnificent light at which no man can enter. That is why Jesus has stated nobody has ever seen God…However God the father made known who he was through his Son Jesus in the OT.
Everything starting with Moses and is in complete harmony with the Son. The bread of heaven that fell upon the earth like dew. The rock at which Moses broke to set forth water to drink. Even the alter of the most high was a copy of the heavenly alter at which Jesus was in. The son revealed who the father was just as the Son reveled who the father is when he came into the world. For he says in many cases: The father and I are one: The disciples wanted to see the father and Jesus stated that how long have you been with me and you still don’t know who I am…If you have seen me then you have seen the father. The Holy Spirit is the giver of life and the power sent from on high upon Jesus ascension and glorification! And is the means to be with with the most high as sons/daughters.
The only reference of a feminists quality from the OT is in the book of wisdom. Wisdom itself is considered to have feminists quality. However it is not to be taken literally. We can not even fathom the glory and the majesty of God. For when we reach heaven we will be like him and just as he will be fully known we too will be fully known!
There are a lot of New age beliefs out there that supposedly that these ascended masters reveal the truths about God the Father and mother essence of God. Be on guard of these folks. They deny The son’s power that obliterated sins from the world. They claim that 1 person each year must ascend into heaven to save this world as we know it. Pray for them so that the truth maybe relaized to them.

 

[BRB]

There are a lot of New age beliefs out there that supposedly that these ascended masters reveal the truths about God the Father and mother essence of God. Be on guard of these folks. They deny The son's power that obliterated sins from the world. .

No one here is suggesting any restrictions on Christ’s power of Cross. God the Father and God the Son are sacrosanct.

However, there is a long tradition in the Church of theologians and philosophers seeing strong feminine language regarding the Holy Spirit. Christ especially talked in terms of marriage, bride and bridegroom, etc … regarding Church and Christians.

How did God creat woman … unless He fully understood the female psyche ? Again, the topic is not so much anatomical structures … as it is feminine and male emotional /psychological makeup. Anyone who would deny the differences of man/women from spiritual/soul standpoint is in denial. Can a male function as effectively as a mother ? Can a female fully function as a surrogate father ?

Man and women are complementary. Neither is superior to the other. So lets not let male chauvenism enter into the equation.

I think modern day theologians and the current Pope have clearly noticed the many feminine aspects to the H.S. I trust their judgement in seeing clearly in this matter.

Stay tuned … the H.S. will get the final word. And, Mother Mary may have something to say on the subject.

 

[Seraphim25]

God created woman from Adam…The apostles themselves are firm at this. Adam was created in the image and likeness of God and Woman was created from man. Woman was created for man as a helper and equilizer. God showing all the creatures to man and naming them found alone. Then God said it is not good that man be alone. Let us then create for him a helpmate. God did put a deep sleep on Adam and created Woman. All are gods and thus need to be respected as thus. My implications are not to undermine women for I am married and subject myself to her just as she does to me.
The feminist qualities are the church the bride as being the redemptive creation at which God himself marries. This fulfills Isiahs prophecy at which the Father says to the gentiles: To those who knew me not says the the lord of hosts all shall know me and they shall be called son’s and daughters to me. And in another place I the lord forsake you for a while but I the lord will no longer forsake you but I myself will marry you. Just as the bridegroom delights in his bride…I to will delight in you says the lord of hosts.
When Christs refers himself has the groom and is talking about that passage. When Christs died and payed for our sins he “married” his creation. Reconciling all things to himself.
So my main point is that God created Woman for Mans sake so that look that the marriage couple you shall see a vision of God. The two shall leave Father and mother and unite and become one flesh. For they will be no longer two but one flesh. This is in refence to God himself who although three are in God.
God knows all he is the creator and therefore knows exactly what we need. My words are in no way sexists but quite the opposite.
God Bless

 

[MarcoPolo]

Could you quote me what Scott Hahn and the Pope say exactly?

Ok, let me quote Scott Hahn myself:

On the notion of a feminine disposition of the Spirit, Scott Hahn said on an EWTN series First Comes Love: “If the Church was to ever come out and deny this idea I would be the first to leave it.”

And in his book First Comes Love, p. 138, he wrote:*I must raise a caution here. This does not mean that we call God “Mother”; divine revelation does not call God by that name. Nor is it found anywhere in the Church’s living Tradition. Ironically, to do so, on account of the Spirit, would be to undermine the very work of that same Spirit, Who is intent upon teaching us to address – and come to know – God as ‘Abba, Father.’ *

As well, there’s John 16:13-14 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. So I think you should proceed a little more cautiously when advancing this notion so strongly.