Holy Thursday - Foot Washing Ritual

[agapewolf]

Just to let everyone know, the ORDO…the little cheat sheet book that the priest uses every day to prepare for mass (it says whether to do a gloria, what color to wear, the reading options, and little snippets about the saints, etc) says this and ONLY this:

—The group whose feet are washed should represent a cross-section of the local community. The number is traditionally twelve, though there is no exact requirement.

Perhaps, just maybe, people are reading this instruction only and following it. Therefore, it would NOT be an abuse because they are following the instructions given. (in order for something to be an abuse, it must be an AB-using, which is a willful act).

yes, i know there are other instructions in the GIRM, etc, and I agree with the instructions, I would like to see all men. However, I’m not gonna be so fast to yell “abuse” at every corner.

 

[Jimzz12]

Just to let everyone know, the ORDO…the little cheat sheet book that the priest uses every day to prepare for mass (it says whether to do a gloria, what color to wear, the reading options, and little snippets about the saints, etc) says this and ONLY this:

—The group whose feet are washed should represent a cross-section of the local community. The number is traditionally twelve, though there is no exact requirement.

Perhaps, just maybe, people are reading this instruction only and following it. Therefore, it would NOT be an abuse because they are following the instructions given. (in order for something to be an abuse, it must be an AB-using, which is a willful act).

yes, i know there are other instructions in the GIRM, etc, and I agree with the instructions, I would like to see all men. However, I’m not gonna be so fast to yell “abuse” at every corner.

Well said. We now know where to direct the wrath. It is in fact now clear that it often proceeds from ignorance. Ignorance is not a shelter to hide the intellect. To willfully hide in ignorance is to hide from learning about God, whom we are never able to cease learning about in His divine infinitness.

I’d say it’s an abuse not correct it.

 

[jilly4ski]

So I couldn’t vote b/c our parish had no foot washing/hand washing of any kind.

 

[Phemie]

So I couldn’t vote b/c our parish had no foot washing/hand washing of any kind.

It’s optional. Better to skip it than to do it poorly.

 

[jilly4ski]

hehehehe, too true, I was just confused, but really I didn’t miss it that much.

Pax

 

[KathleenElsie]

As much as I would like to go to the Holy Thursday service at our parish I go to a parish about ten miles from home instead. Our parish washes the feet of men and women. I go to one that does not wash feet at all. This way I don’t feel conflicted about it. If Rome says YES to men and women then I will follow what Rome says. Until them I guess you can call me legalistic on this issue.

My daughter sings in the choir and she does not watch while that part of the service is done. I have not been able to just ignore this big a part of Holy Thursday at our parish.

 

[FrDavid96]

Just to let everyone know, the ORDO…the little cheat sheet book that the priest uses every day to prepare for mass (it says whether to do a gloria, what color to wear, the reading options, and little snippets about the saints, etc) says this and ONLY this:

—The group whose feet are washed should represent a cross-section of the local community. The number is traditionally twelve, though there is no exact requirement.

Perhaps, just maybe, people are reading this instruction only and following it. Therefore, it would NOT be an abuse because they are following the instructions given. (in order for something to be an abuse, it must be an AB-using, which is a willful act).

yes, i know there are other instructions in the GIRM, etc, and I agree with the instructions, I would like to see all men. However, I’m not gonna be so fast to yell “abuse” at every corner.

There are a few different Ordo’s out there. None of them are authoritative. They are very useful guides, but they are only useful insofar as they are accurately presenting the liturgical laws of the Church. There’s realy no excuse for a priest who “doesn’t know better” in this case. It’s one thing if the ordo has a typo and the priest follows it unintentionally; let’s say for example listing the wrong color of the day, or the wrong saint for the day. But if a priest is looking at the ordo and not looking at the liturgical laws of the Church, especially since the ordo is presenting the personal opinion of the author/editor/publisher and this is in direct conflict with the Church’s law, there’s just no excuse.

The actual “instructions” for the evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper are found in the Sacramentary. The ordo’s are not “instructions.” Every priest knows this.

The description printed in the ordo is wrong. It’s really that simple.

 

[Phemie]

There are a few different Ordo’s out there. None of them are authoritative. They are very useful guides, but they are only useful insofar as they are accurately presenting the liturgical laws of the Church. There’s realy no excuse for a priest who “doesn’t know better” in this case.

I’m not challenging you on this Fr. but I just wonder what it takes to make an ORDO authoritative. In the US I know there are many, but in Canada there is only one, put out by the CCCB. It has the same ‘cross-section’ instruction as was mentioned in a previous post. I would think that reflects the wishes of the conference.

 

[1holycatholic]

I’m not challenging you on this Fr. but I just wonder what it takes to make an ORDO authoritative. In the US I know there are many, but in Canada there is only one, put out by the CCCB. It has the same ‘cross-section’ instruction as was mentioned in a previous post. I would think that reflects the wishes of the conference.

What authority does the CCCB or USCCB have?

 

[FrDavid96]

I’m not challenging you on this Fr. but I just wonder what it takes to make an ORDO authoritative. In the US I know there are many, but in Canada there is only one, put out by the CCCB. It has the same ‘cross-section’ instruction as was mentioned in a previous post. I would think that reflects the wishes of the conference.

Nothing makes an ordo authoritative. It’s not in the nature of an ordo to be authoritative. Only the law itself is what’s binding. The ordo explains the law and makes it easy for someone to properly read the law, but the authority does not rest with the ordo, but with the law which it quotes.

Just because something is published by (or in the name of) a bishop’s conference, that in and of itself does not mean that the document has any force-of-law.

Liturgical laws have to be passed by the conference of bishops, and depending on the matter, approved by the Holy See. So unless the paragraph from the ordo was actually voted-on by the CCCB and received the recognition of the Holy See, it’s not liturgical law.

 

[FrDavid96]

What authority does the CCCB or USCCB have?

Well, there are all kinds of answers to that question depending on the specific subject.

With regard to liturgical law, here’s how it works:

1. The Holy See establishes universal liturgical laws, which are binding for all Catholics everywhere in the world. This is the starting point.
2. The different bishops’ conferences may propose changes to those universal laws, and if the Holy See approves those suggestions, they become the law for that particular territory.
3. There are examples within the universal liturgical norms which specifically say that the conference of bishops may make changes to some particular practice. If a case like that, the approval of Rome isn’t necessary (because it’s already been given).

The real sticking point here is that changes to the universal law have to be proposed by the conference and approved by Rome. As I said in my previous post, just because something is printed by the bishop’s conference, that does not necessarily mean that the actual text found in that publication has been voted-on by the conference. This holds true for a lot of what’s printed by the conferences because most of the time the text does not need to be approved by the whole conference.

To take an analogy from the civil arena, just because a document has been printed by the “United States Printing Office”, that doesn’t mean that the Congress has actually voted on (and passed as law) every word found in the document. It also means that citizens need not consider such texts to be legally binding, unless the text is actually quoting a law which has been passed by Congress and signed by the President.

 

[maryjk]

Well, there are all kinds of answers to that question depending on the specific subject.
With regard to liturgical law, here’s how it works:

1. The Holy See establishes universal liturgical laws, which are binding for all Catholics everywhere in the world. This is the starting point.
2. The different bishops’ conferences may propose changes to those universal laws, and if the Holy See approves those suggestions, they become the law for that particular territory.
3. There are examples within the universal liturgical norms which specifically say that the conference of bishops may make changes to some particular practice. If a case like that, the approval of Rome isn’t necessary (because it’s already been given).
   The real sticking point here is that changes to the universal law have to be proposed by the conference and approved by Rome. As I said in my previous post, just because something is printed by the bishop’s conference, that does not necessarily mean that the actual text found in that publication has been voted-on by the conference. This holds true for a lot of what’s printed by the conferences because most of the time the text does not need to be approved by the whole conference.

To take an analogy from the civil arena, just because a document has been printed by the “United States Printing Office”, that doesn’t mean that the Congress has actually voted on (and passed as law) every word found in the document. It also means that citizens need not consider such texts to be legally binding, unless the text is actually quoting a law which has been passed by Congress and signed by the President.

Okay… So…
When we have a situation like mine, where there were men, women and young children having their feet washed, what should we do. If we ask about it, we may very well be supplied with something from the USCCB. And because there is a document with this information from the Bishops, would we have a leg to stand on?

At this point, I have decided to let it go. If I attend next year, I will just keep my eyes closed in prayer and try not to think about the young children pretending they are the hit of the party.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

At my parish, it starts out with the priests washing the RCIA candidates’ feet, then it’s a big free for all (as everything at my parish seems to be) with the female sacristan waving her arms and yelling for everyone to come on up and have their feet washed. Women, children, everybody. It ends up with lay people (mostly women) doing the washing after they’ve had their feet washed. Women getting their feet washed might be a little bit of a gray area, but I’m pretty sure lay women doing the washing is not what is intended. They are acting as an alter Christus, something only the priest should be doing.

What this shows is that people don’t understand what the washing of the feet was all about in the first place.

On a positive note, at the Easter Vigil, there were no liturgical dancers this year as there have been in past years.

 

[FrDavid96]

Okay… So…
When we have a situation like mine, where there were men, women and young children having their feet washed, what should we do. If we ask about it, we may very well be supplied with something from the USCCB. And because there is a document with this information from the Bishops, would we have a leg to stand on?

At this point, I have decided to let it go. If I attend next year, I will just keep my eyes closed in prayer and try not to think about the young children pretending they are the hit of the party.

The phrase “from the Bishops” is what I have been trying to explain. The source that suggests opening this ritual to women being the apostles is NOT “from the bishops” It is from a USCCB committee newsletter–there’s a huge difference. Newsletters do not have any force-of-law.

 

[benedictgal]

The phrase “from the Bishops” is what I have been trying to explain. The source that suggests opening this ritual to women being the apostles is NOT “from the bishops” It is from a USCCB committee newsletter–there’s a huge difference. Newsletters do not have any force-of-law.

Furthermore, what does have the force of law are the documents that come forth from the Holy See, namely, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. Paschale Solemnitatis, the circular letter that treats Lent and Holy Week, very clearly states that:

1. The washing of the feet of chosen men which, according to tradition, is performed on this day, represents the service and charity of Christ, who came “not to be served, but to serve.” [58] This tradition should be maintained, and its proper significance explained.

Thus, the lower body does not have the right to overrule what the supreme rule-making authority has already decreed.

 

[Lycoming]

I had to stop by my parish Thursday morning. There were 14 plastic beer pitchers and 14 matching giant salad bowls already laid out. I prudently decided to go elsewhere later that night.

 

[FrDavid96]

I had to stop by my parish Thursday morning. There were 14 plastic beer pitchers and 14 matching giant salad bowls already laid out. I prudently decided to go elsewhere later that night.

Good call. Walk away and “shake the dust from your feet” !!!

 

[7_Sorrows]

I had to stop by my parish Thursday morning. There were 14 plastic beer pitchers and 14 matching giant salad bowls already laid out. I prudently decided to go elsewhere later that night.

this was my first time to attend holy thursday in the catholic church. they had a beautiful white china pitcher and bowl and while clean towels. i was a little surprised that all of the candidates to get their feet washed were female. i couldn’t see the people on the other side, but if there were any men, it was only one or two. they also chose only 12 people.

the last time i went to a holy thursday service was in the episcopal church and everyone who wished was invited to come up and get their feet washed.

i don’t think i would feel comfortable going up.

 

[Jimzz12]

As much as I would like to go to the Holy Thursday service at our parish I go to a parish about ten miles from home instead. Our parish washes the feet of men and women. I go to one that does not wash feet at all. This way I don’t feel conflicted about it. If Rome says YES to men and women then I will follow what Rome says. Until them I guess you can call me legalistic on this issue.

Well said. It is not legalistic to support the view of the rules as handed down. Without dogmatics and their associate components spirituality is impossible. (To all, please read that twice).

Legalism is like all -isms and likewise carry no benefit. But, the issue of footwashing for the select men is firmly rooted in Theology. The Theology makes clear the intrinsic dignity of Man and Woman. To wash the feet of women is a false charity under the auspice of creating nice feelings. Do not be mistaken that it has been performed out of some democraticism in lowering the standard and casting out the unique compatible value of men and women have in their coming together for the Glory of God. The washing of womens’ feet has happened because it was presumed and falsely believed that it is an initiation into performing Christian Charity; as if the baptized Faithful require furthur license beyond the Sacrament of Baptism to show forth the Charity that is imbued upon the heart at Baptism.

The washing of women’s feet and men’s feet side by side does nothing more than lower the standard in a very “Screwtape Proposes a Toast” kind of way. We can recall that there was the discussion of the tyrant who lopped the heads off of every stalk of corn that was taller than the other. Men and woman have seperate innate purposes as ordained by God. Read the Proto-Gospel of Genesis. Read it in detail. And consider every line and every word. Pray and read it again. The Scripture continues to grow. It is, metaphorically, a living and breathing entity.

We here in the forum have been made aware that there is faulty, if not outright subversive, wording in the instructions for priests preparing for the Mass. This betrays a failure to understand the first few lines of the Good Book in even some of the most elementary ways. We should all to pray to understand the Word better. In saying, Word. I mean in every sense. As Christ is the Word.

Wash the heels of select men who may anticipate a life going about crushing the head of the serpent, as the Heel of Adam crushed sin.

Vivat Iesu.

 

[jmcrae]

I had to stop by my parish Thursday morning. There were 14 plastic beer pitchers and 14 matching giant salad bowls already laid out.

Yikes.

I prudently decided to go elsewhere later that night.

I’d have gone with you, under the same circumstances.

Thank God I am at a very good parish, right now.