Holy thursday foot washing

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angell1

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ok, I had given up caf for lent, but find myself in a bit of a situation. so I need to ask for clearfication

I know, this is going to be a hot topic, but I just got an e-mail from the world youth day organizer asking if I want to participate in the holy Thursday foot washing.

I’m still confused on the teaching of this. what from I understand, women aren’t allowed to do it but it seems like most parishes, either have permission, or simply don’t care and do it anyways?

and pope francis does it every year, which doesn’t nevessarily change the rules of a discipline but I guess other priests feel it’s ok to do if he’s doing it.

can someone help? I think I will decline anyways but I want to be sure I’m understanding properly

I wish it would be made clearer or change the discipline if everyone is going to do it anyways

also it is a sin if I’m breaking my lentin sacrifice? since w’re on the topic…
 
It is supposed to be suffering during Lent, but if it hurts you physically to a certain point then it was not meant to be given up. We should only give up things that we do not need in the first place. Although you may just be going through caffeine withdrawal, it is up to you. Is it truly beneficial for you to give it up, or is it almost impossible to complete your fast? Think on this and then you can make an informed decision 🙂 On the topic of feet washing, it would be fine if you did participate in this, if the pope washed the feet of women, but I am not sure. I do no think it should be a problem for women, however.
 
angell1 said:
ok, I had given up caf for lent, but find myself in a bit of a situation. so I need to ask for clearfication

I know, this is going to be a hot topic, but I just got an e-mail from the world youth day organizer asking if I want to participate in the holy Thursday foot washing.

I’m still confused on the teaching of this. what from I understand, women aren’t allowed to do it but it seems like most parishes, either have permission, or simply don’t care and do it anyways?

and pope francis does it every year, which doesn’t nevessarily change the rules of a discipline but I guess other priests feel it’s ok to do if he’s doing it.

can someone help? I think I will decline anyways but I want to be sure I’m understanding properly

I wish it would be made clearer or change the discipline if everyone is going to do it anyways

also it is a sin if I’m breaking my lentin sacrifice? since w’re on the topic…
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First off, it is not a sin to break the Lenten penance, as there is no canonical requirement to undertake one a priori.

Normally, females are not to have their foot washed, because it is a commemoration of our LORD doing it for His disciples, who were all male. But some priests do it with women anyhow.

ICXC NIKA
 
If it’s okay with the Holy Father, then it’s okay with me. I broke my lenten sacrifice and took it to confession and got 3 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Marys which is more than I usually get:blush:
 
I’ll put my 2 cents in before everyone loses their mind. :rolleyes:
Do whatever the priest wants.
Our pastor washes the feet of children, both male and female.
 
GEddie said:
First off, it is not a sin to break the Lenten penance, as there is no canonical requirement to undertake one a priori.

Normally, females are not to have their foot washed, because it is a commemoration of our LORD doing it for His disciples, who were all male. But some priests do it with women anyhow.

ICXC NIKA
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To me lenten sacrifice is for our own benefit - most of our choices are to give up something and most of the time an addiction, or sometimes material things that vve dont really need, to me it is a testing time to strengthen our vvill our spirit our conscience, and God helps us by pouring out His abundant grace as it is for spiritual grovvth although vve do it unconsciously.

As for vvashing of the feet - it is a tradition that vve follovv by choosing men, in my church, the priest before the service picks 12 from the congregation present. But can vve vvash the feet of another ? VVhat is the message that Jesus vvants us to receive by vvashing another or being vvashed - like Peter our thoughts - first a No and then … not just my feet Lord. So lets shift the thought to not just vvhat happens at the service or vvhose feet vvas vvashed but the message.that Jesus is conveying.
 
I inquired about this topic and perhaps it was my tone but I was suspended…I merely asked about the rubrics regarding the foot washing on Holy Thursday…his Holiness Pope Francis washed the feet of women and a muslim…the muslims as I understand dont’ believe in the Divinity of Christ and further it is written that the "trinity is excrement’…I just wonder about what message this sends and would like to know what good comes from it…Christ sat at table with questionable people and I am definitely a sinner unworthy so on that level I suppose I can understand his reasoning but I would still like to know the rules on this. If I remember correctly EWTN, when I checked metioned that it was more or less up to the Bishop…Pax tecum
 
well the rubricks sstill say only men…

I didn’t think priests can depart from the rubricks on a whim

and Jesus did it as a gesture of service and treating them as his friends, I don’t see what is has to do with the priesthood and only male disciples. if that were the case, only priests should get their feet washed, not just any lay person

but why not just say so in the rubricks to make it less ambiguous?
 
The rubrics states that the chosen men, after the homily, will get their foot washed.

Typically only men are allowed to have their foot washed. In the latin rubric, viri is the word used for men. Not unless if your parish has a dispensation, only men are allowed to have their feet washed.
 
QuasiCatholic said:
The USCCB answered this way back in 1987: usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year/triduum/holy-thursday-mandatum.cfm (Note points #4 & #5 in the response).

Can we move on?
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Actually, that did not happen.

“The USCCB” did not answer the question. The chairman of the then-Committee on Liturgy answered it with his own personal opinion—a personal opinion that conflicts with the liturgical norms of the Church, and clearly contradicts the rubrics printed in the then-Sacramentary and the current Roman Missal.

Just because something happens to be posted on the USCCB website, that does not mean we can attach the words “The USCCB said…” or “The USCCB answered…”

You closed by asking “Can we move on?”

I ask “Can we do the red and read the black?”
 
angell1 said:
well the rubricks sstill say only men…

I didn’t think priests can depart from the rubricks on a whim

and Jesus did it as a gesture of service and treating them as his friends, I don’t see what is has to do with the priesthood and only male disciples. if that were the case, only priests should get their feet washed, not just any lay person

but why not just say so in the rubricks to make it less ambiguous?
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The rubrics do “just say so.” The problem is that people choose to ignore the rubrics. 🤷
 
QuasiCatholic said:
The USCCB answered this way back in 1987: usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year/triduum/holy-thursday-mandatum.cfm (Note points #4 & #5 in the response).

Can we move on?
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Hello,

In addition to what FrDavid96 said, that statement does not say it is permitted to ignore the rubric, the rubric is optional, or the rubric does not apply. The USCCB has no authority to say anything of the sort.

The statement merely says that some people in the USA ignore the rubric for certain “understandable” reasons. Nobody could argue with that.

To the OP: you seem to understand the issue quite well: the rite still calls for only men but sometimes women are involved. In my opinion, it is appropriate to decline to participate in it.

Dan
 
FrDavid96 said:
Actually, that did not happen.

“The USCCB” did not answer the question. The chairman of the then-Committee on Liturgy answered it with his own personal opinion—a personal opinion that conflicts with the liturgical norms of the Church, and clearly contradicts the rubrics printed in the then-Sacramentary and the current Roman Missal.

Just because something happens to be posted on the USCCB website, that does not mean we can attach the words “The USCCB said…” or “The USCCB answered…”

You closed by asking “Can we move on?”

I ask “Can we do the red and read the black?”
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With all due respect Father, the USCCB didn’t have a website in 1987. Which means that sometime between 1987 and now someone over there reviewed that content and decided to post it to their website in answer to the question about what’s acceptable for Holy Thursday policy. Furthermore, it says the response came from “a review of the matter by the committee,” not one person’s personal opinion.
 
QuasiCatholic said:
With all due respect Father, the USCCB didn’t have a website in 1987. Which means that sometime between 1987 and now someone over there reviewed that content and decided to post it to their website in answer to the question about what’s acceptable for Holy Thursday policy.
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What’s acceptable for Holy Thursday is found in the rubrics of the Mass in the Roman Missal and GIRM.

What’s acceptable for Holy Thursday does not come from the USCCB website.
QuasiCatholic said:
Furthermore, it says the response came from “a review of the matter by the committee,” not one person’s personal opinion.
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Which still does not have any force of law.
 
If Pope Francis is washing the feet of males and females with some of them being non Catholic of various ages and backgrounds, I have no issue personally with priests allowing both genders to participate. I am sure if I was to go to a TLM Holy Thursday, I am sure the rule of only men would apply.
 
QuasiCatholic said:
With all due respect Father, the USCCB didn’t have a website in 1987. Which means that sometime between 1987 and now someone over there reviewed that content and decided to post it to their website in answer to the question about what’s acceptable for Holy Thursday policy. Furthermore, it says the response came from “a review of the matter by the committee,” not one person’s personal opinion.
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“Someone” does not decide deviations from the approved liturgical norms of the Church.

Whoever did it (singular or plural) lacked any competence, lacked any legitimate authority, to make such a statement.

Without approval/recognition from the Congregation in Rome, what was posted there is still nothing more than someone (again, singular or plural) expressing a personal opinion which contradicts the Church’s norms.
 
For my part, I will be having my foot washed on Holy Thursday by our bishop (and I am female). The twelve of us that were chosen for this are all entering full communion into the Catholic Church this Easter. 🙂
 
UnumCorpus said:
For my part, I will be having my foot washed on Holy Thursday by our bishop (and I am female). The twelve of us that were chosen for this are all entering full communion into the Catholic Church this Easter. 🙂
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That’s interesting. My former Pastor used to do the same…but then, my current Pastor said no, because they were not catholic yet.
So…I guess the personalities of the priests is a major factor, whether or not we agree or disagree. 🤷
I’ve seldom been able to sway a priest on anything by quoting rubrics. :o

But hey, as long as we do 12? I’m good. The former pastor here used to have everyone wash each other’s feet…EVERY PERSON in the Church. Took forever, and believe you me, you didn’t want to be in the back row by time that bucket got there.
To me, that was more abusive than serving women or kids.
But that’s just my opinion…I realize it’s not correct.
I don’t really want to engage in the annual 12 men or 12 women debate. Just an anecdote!

It’s my birthday! Feeling feisty, I am. 😉
 
pianistclare said:
That’s interesting. My former Pastor used to do the same…but then, my current Pastor said no, because they were not catholic yet.
So…I guess the personalities of the priests is a major factor, whether or not we agree or disagree. 🤷
I’ve seldom been able to sway a priest on anything by quoting rubrics. :o
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I suppose that’s true. All I know is that I wouldn’t want to argue with my bishop about it! I’m just honoured to be one of the 12.

Honestly, I never even knew that there was a continuous men-only foot washing debate until I started noticing these sorts of threads on CAF. :o
pianistclare said:
It’s my birthday! Feeling feisty, I am. 😉
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Happy birthday! 🙂
 
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