Holy Thursday Mass- what is allowed, what is forbidden

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Readers, please click on the link provided by James 0235 in post #7; in particular the 2008 letter from the CDW

When the Holy See says “the washing of the feet is reserved to ‘chosen men’ (viri selecti), that is, male persons…This Dicasters considers this legislation clear and wishes to add nothing further.”

It means exactly what it says. No one other than the pope himself, or a higher authority than the first office to issue a reply within the Vatican, has the authority to overturn a Vatican Dicastery. Some people might not like the Vatican’s ruling. Some people might not the fact that the Vatican cannot be overruled by a local authority. Some people might prefer to ignore the Vatican and offer their own interpretations of what should or may be done. Some people will offer some creative arguments for overturning the Vatican’s decision. Some people might make the argument that if a thing is being done, the Vatican’s ruling is irrelevant.

None of these things change the simple fact that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has said “the washing of the feet is reserved to ‘chosen men.’”
 
FrDavid96 said:
Readers, please click on the link provided by James 0235 in post #7; in particular the 2008 letter from the CDW

When the Holy See says “the washing of the feet is reserved to ‘chosen men’ (viri selecti), that is, male persons…This Dicasters considers this legislation clear and wishes to add nothing further.”

It means exactly what it says. No one other than the pope himself, or a higher authority than the first office to issue a reply within the Vatican, has the authority to overturn a Vatican Dicastery. Some people might not like the Vatican’s ruling. Some people might not the fact that the Vatican cannot be overruled by a local authority. Some people might prefer to ignore the Vatican and offer their own interpretations of what should or may be done. Some people will offer some creative arguments for overturning the Vatican’s decision. Some people might make the argument that if a thing is being done, the Vatican’s ruling is irrelevant.

None of these things change the simple fact that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has said “the washing of the feet is reserved to ‘chosen men.’”
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[edited] Cardinal Justin Rigalli. Because it is allowed in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. In every parish!.
 
bkovacs said:
[edited] Cardinal Justin Rigalli. Because it is allowed in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia. In every parish!.
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If it’s against the rules, then it is not truly “allowed.” Whoever is authorizing this is either ignorant or being deliberately disobedient.
 
Our last Pastor was of a liberal persuassion, so he chose men and women as well. This Pastor likes to do his own thing as well, and he calls everyone and anyone up there after the initial 12, and has everyone wash feet. :banghead:

This year we literally could not find all men for the washing of feet, so we felt we had no choice but to ask 2 women. He will again, I am aniticipating, call people up after the initial 12 and we will have a repeat performance of last year.:crying:
 
Teelynn said:
Our last Pastor was of a liberal persuassion, so he chose men and women as well. This Pastor likes to do his own thing as well, and he calls everyone and anyone up there after the initial 12, and has everyone wash feet. :banghead:

This year we literally could not find all men for the washing of feet, so we felt we had no choice but to ask 2 women. He will again, I am aniticipating, call people up after the initial 12 and we will have a repeat performance of last year.:crying:
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If you can’t find 12 men, simply don’t do it. The Foot Washing is OPTIONAL!
 
Teelynn said:
Our last Pastor was of a liberal persuassion, so he chose men and women as well. This Pastor likes to do his own thing as well, and he calls everyone and anyone up there after the initial 12, and has everyone wash feet. :banghead:

This year we literally could not find all men for the washing of feet, so we felt we had no choice but to ask 2 women. He will again, I am aniticipating, call people up after the initial 12 and we will have a repeat performance of last year.:crying:
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I’ve seen (a few times, but by no means a lot) asking one young man (not a boy, but a teenager) who “represents” the apostle John.

That could get you one more at least.

The big question is “who gets to be Judas?”
(no, the 12 men don’t represent individual apostles, the entire 12 men represent all 12 apostles as a group)
 
  1. The apostles were men. Therefore, only men should represent them at this re-enactment.
  2. As a previous poster has said, a celibate priest washing a woman’s foot is creepy. If point 1. is the case, it’s perverse.
  3. Political correctness != religious morality.
‘!=’ is a computer programming term, meaning: ‘is not equal to’.]
 
Bro. Rich and Fr David,

Yep, we all know this on our liturgy ministry, and also we all realize foot washing is optional. I know this Pastor knows all this, but insists on doing it this way. I haven’t figured out if it’s a power struggle or if he just thinks it’s better his way. At this point in the planning of liturgies for Palm Sunday, Holy Week, Holy Thursday, Good Friday and the Easter Vigil, I think we are all feeling like beat up rag dolls. At the beginning of lent I felt I might not be sacrificing enough, but at this point, I am doing plenty of penance. Going to the Bishop might be too little too late as this Pastor is leaving soon. Pray for us that we get a Pastor that doesn’t do too much of his own thing. I have discovered at least in our area, that they ALL do their own thing in one area or another. They don’t seem to come any other way.😦
 
Teelynn said:
Bro. Rich and Fr David,

Yep, we all know this on our liturgy ministry, and also we all realize foot washing is optional. I know this Pastor knows all this, but insists on doing it this way. I haven’t figured out if it’s a power struggle or if he just thinks it’s better his way. At this point in the planning of liturgies for Palm Sunday, Holy Week, Holy Thursday, Good Friday and the Easter Vigil, I think we are all feeling like beat up rag dolls. At the beginning of lent I felt I might not be sacrificing enough, but at this point, I am doing plenty of penance. Going to the Bishop might be too little too late as this Pastor is leaving soon. Pray for us that we get a Pastor that doesn’t do too much of his own thing. I have discovered at least in our area, that they ALL do their own thing in one area or another. They don’t seem to come any other way.😦
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I hate to say this, but, it all boils down to pride. It’s not a question as to whether our way is better. It is a question of choosing to obey what the Church says should be done as opposed to how we feel it should be done. It is also about the pride some women might feel as they demand to be included in something that is specifically not about them. I am a woman and I am not at all in favor of changing the rules in the middle of the game just to suit any idiosyncracy that I might have because I don’t feel included.

Perhaps you should tell the bishop. If this priest is going elsewhere in the diocese, the same probllem will crop up again.
 
Does your Priest wash the Altar Boys feet at this Mass? If so where are you located?

Pax,
DCD
 
Footwashing of women and men is allowed in my diocese. See here:

richmonddiocese.org/worship/docs/HolyThursFootWashing.pdf

As for Layman’s remark that women’s feet being washed by a celibate priest as being perverse or creepy, that is your mind working overtime, I think. My pastor does this ceremony humbly and prayerfully whether the “apostle” is a man or a woman.
 
In my parish the priest washes the feet of adult parishioners, men and women, who have volunteered ahead of time. We’re in the western suburbs of Chicago. When I was a kid back in my old parish on the Southside of Chicago, many years ago the pastor did wash to feet of altar boys. But it’s been a long time since I’ve seen that done.
 
A lot of the pastors around here (northeast PA) wash the feet of both men and women on Holy Thursday (I wish they would not include women).

One local priest plans to wash the feet of six boys in the First Communion class and their fathers. I rather like that idea.
 
Our priest washes the feet of those in RCIA. Mine were washed last year. If I had known it was an abuse, I would not have participated.
 
ive been invited to have my feet washed, im trying to figure out a tactful way to ask if its male only so i can decide if i want to do it.
 
maize said:
ive been invited to have my feet washed, im trying to figure out a tactful way to ask if its male only so i can decide if i want to do it.
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According to Paschale Solemnitatis, the authoritative document on the Holy See concerning Holy Week:
  1. The washing of the feet of chosen men which, according to tradition, is performed on this day, represents the service and charity of Christ, who came “not to be served, but to serve.” [58] This tradition should be maintained, and its proper significance explained.
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About 20 years later, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments reaffirmed that it is only for men. Furthermore, unless the altar boys are 18 and above, the kids should not be involved in this ritual.
 
cricket36 said:
Footwashing of women and men is allowed in my diocese. See here:

richmonddiocese.org/worship/docs/HolyThursFootWashing.pdf

As for Layman’s remark that women’s feet being washed by a celibate priest as being perverse or creepy, that is your mind working overtime, I think. My pastor does this ceremony humbly and prayerfully whether the “apostle” is a man or a woman.
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However, in Paschale Solemnitatis, which the Holy See promulgated back in 1988, the instruction is very different:
  1. The washing of the feet of chosen men which, according to tradition, is performed on this day, represents the service and charity of Christ, who came “not to be served, but to serve.” [58] This tradition should be maintained, and its proper significance explained.
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In fact, some 20 years later, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments reaffirmed this document.
 
It looks to me that this is an abuse that is widely practiced. What’s up with all this? Am wondering how to bring it to the forefront of Bishops nationwide so that this can be corrected.
 
My RCIA parish refuses to wash anyone’s feet until women are allowed to participate. It’s very liberal to say the least.
 
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