Holy water and holy candles

[chefmomster2]

In other instances, I’ve read and been told that we shouldn’t limit God’s generosity by asking only for little things. Remember the prophet who got mad at the King or Israel for not asking for a blessing, and then promised the savior, Christ? Elsewhere, we’re taught to ask for what we need.

I’m not a theologian, I just always understood that we may not always get what we ask for, but we can count on not getting what we don’t ask for.

Anyway, I don’t mean to stir up any doubt in anyone’s hearts. I trust the Church. Only a couple of priests have pointed out to me on difference occasions that in the case of the holy water blessings, they’re just different and one asks for protection from demons and all sorts of evils, and the other doesn’t ask for those things.

Therefore, I think it’s a legitimate desire to have holy water blessed according to the old rite.

I truly have just never heard of such a thing. It hasn’t stirred up doubts- just curiosity! I appreciate all I’ve learned about this today. Thanks to all the posters.

 

[pianistclare]

In other instances, I’ve read and been told that we shouldn’t limit God’s generosity by asking only for little things. Remember the prophet who got mad at the King or Israel for not asking for a blessing, and then promised the savior, Christ? Elsewhere, we’re taught to ask for what we need.

I’m not a theologian, I just always understood that we may not always get what we ask for, but we can count on not getting what we don’t ask for.

Anyway, I don’t mean to stir up any doubt in anyone’s hearts. I trust the Church. Only a couple of priests have pointed out to me on difference occasions that in the case of the holy water blessings, they’re just different and one asks for protection from demons and all sorts of evils, and the other doesn’t ask for those things.

Therefore, I think it’s a legitimate desire to have holy water blessed according to the old rite.

Well, I get what you’re saying…but when priests advise us to keep holy water, blessed palms, and other sacramentals around…
they don’t also say “and be sure it got the right blessing first!”
Indeed, when my priest came to my house to bless it after my late husband killed himself there, he brought holy water and prayed the exorcism prayers…he just brought water from the font at church. He didn’t do anything “extra” for a blessing.
The way I see it: if a validly ordained priest blesses water…it’s blessed. End of story.
You might feel really good about the "extra’ words even.
The notion that some things are “better” because of a former or older version is confusing to people who are trying their best. It causes us to make judgments on priests and practices, that we should avoid. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Lormar]

Fr. Chad Ripperger, an exorcist who used to be with the FSSP but left to start a religious community of exorcists under Bishop Slattery, has said in his recorded talks that they have had more success with Holy Water blessed with the old Rite than with the new. I think he added that is because words have meaning and, if you read the new and old blessings, you can see what he meant by that.

 

[Rich_C]

Well, I get what you’re saying…but when priests advise us to keep holy water, blessed palms, and other sacramentals around…
they don’t also say “and be sure it got the right blessing first!”
Indeed, when my priest came to my house to bless it after my late husband killed himself there, he brought holy water and prayed the exorcism prayers…he just brought water from the font at church. He didn’t do anything “extra” for a blessing.
The way I see it: if a validly ordained priest blesses water…it’s blessed. End of story.
You might feel really good about the "extra’ words even.
The notion that some things are “better” because of a former or older version is confusing to people who are trying their best. It causes us to make judgments on priests and practices, that we should avoid. Just my 2 cents.

I’m very sorry to hear about your late husband.

Of course, I think your opinion is legitimate, even though I happen to disagree.

Btw, I would just like to clarify that my preference for the older rite has nothing to do with it being older, just with what it intends. The Church could compose a new rite of holy water blessing tomorrow that’s superior to the old one and the current one, and I would prefer the new one in that case. Just to prove it, I happen to think Pope Emeritus Benedict’s 2007 Good Friday prayer for the Jews is better than the 1962 one. I’m not just stodgy.

 

[pianistclare]

Fr. Chad Ripperger, an exorcist who used to be with the FSSP but left to start a religious community of exorcists under Bishop Slattery, has said in his recorded talks that they have had more success with Holy Water blessed with the old Rite than with the new. I think he added that is because words have meaning and, if you read the new and old blessings, you can see what he meant by that.

Indeed, you have a point. But for our purposes here…in terms of what lay people think about this or that…don’t you think it’s rather divisive to say that some holy water is better than others?
Just in terms of everyday use? Not in terms of something as dramatic and urgent as a genuine exorcism?

That is the point I’m trying to make.
We seem to forever be saying this Rite is better & that Rite is wrong (no pun intended).
It makes people second guess everything, when we would do well to trust God, and pray fervently.
That’s all.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m very sorry to hear about your late husband.

Of course, I think your opinion is legitimate, even though I happen to disagree.

Btw, I would just like to clarify that my preference for the older rite has nothing to do with it being older, just with what it intends. The Church could compose a new rite of holy water blessing tomorrow that’s superior to the old one and the current one, and I would prefer the new one in that case. Just to prove it, I happen to think Pope Emeritus Benedict’s 2007 Good Friday prayer for the Jews is better than the 1962 one. **I’m not just stodgy. /**QUOTE]

:tiphat:
Thanks friend!
I don’t think you’re stodgy either, LOL

 

[Lormar]

Indeed, you have a point. But for our purposes here…in terms of what lay people think about this or that…don’t you think it’s rather divisive to say that some holy water is better than others?
Just in terms of everyday use? Not in terms of something as dramatic and urgent as a genuine exorcism?

That is the point I’m trying to make.
We seem to forever be saying this Rite is better & that Rite is wrong (no pun intended).
It makes people second guess everything, when we would do well to trust God, and pray fervently.
That’s all.

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree with you. To tell you the truth, Holy Water blessed with the new vs. the old Rite is one thing that I haven’t been able to get past from my many years spent with both the SSPX and the sedevacantists. I still question the efficacy of the new. That is something I am still working very hard on.

 

[Rich_C]

Indeed, you have a point. But for our purposes here…in terms of what lay people think about this or that…don’t you think it’s rather divisive to say that some holy water is better than others?
Just in terms of everyday use? Not in terms of something as dramatic and urgent as a genuine exorcism?

That is the point I’m trying to make.
We seem to forever be saying this Rite is better & that Rite is wrong (no pun intended).
It makes people second guess everything, when we would do well to trust God, and pray fervently.
That’s all.

I don’t think that valuing the additional benefits of the older holy water rite means the new rite is “wrong.” If this matter becomes devisive, I would be sad. But I don’t think it is.

I still dip my hand in all the fonts whereever I go and bless myself, even though I assume that most of them don’t offer explicit protection from demons. I don’t complain about the new water or belittle it. I just think words have meaning like father told me.

 

[Rich_C]

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree with you. To tell you the truth, Holy Water blessed with the new vs. the old Rite is one thing that I haven’t been able to get past from my many years spent with both the SSPX and the sedevacantists. I still question the efficacy of the new. That is something I am still working very hard on.

I think there is a vast different between how sedevacantists view the new holy water blessing and how good priests I’ve known explained the difference.

Don’t sedevacantists doubt the validity of it, like they do with the ordinations and even holy Mass?

That is worlds apart from simply taking the Church at Her word, and believing that the effects of the blessing correspond to its petitions.

 

[Lormar]

I think there is a vast different between how sedevacantists view the new holy water blessing and how good priests I’ve known explained the difference.

Don’t sedevacantists doubt the validity of it, like they do with the ordinations and even holy Mass?

That is worlds apart from simply taking the Church at Her word, and believing that the effects of the blessing correspond to its petitions.

I don’t know how you got the above from what I wrote. You greatly misinterpreted what I was saying.

Would you like me to clarify?

 

[Rich_C]

I don’t know how you got the above from what I wrote. You greatly misinterpreted what I was saying.

Would you like me to clarify?

Sure. I’m sorry if I put words in your mouth. I thought I understood what you meant.

 

[Lormar]

Sure. I’m sorry if I put words in your mouth. I thought I understood what you meant.

All I meant is that it is very hard to get the diabolical question mark out of your mind regarding anything to do with the Church since Vatican II that is put there by spending many years in both chapels.

Now I am sorry I wrote it. It wasn’t meant to start a major debate.

 

[Rich_C]

All I meant is that it is very hard to get the diabolical question mark out of your mind regarding anything to do with the Church since Vatican II that is put there by spending many years in both chapels.

Now I am sorry I wrote it. It wasn’t meant to start a major debate.

I can only imagine. I’ve only met one sedevacanist briefly at a Catholic bookshop (he told me he was, or I would never have known) and I’ve never been near an SSPX chapel so I can’t say I’ve been there.

I certainly didn’t mean to start a major debate, either. It’s fine with me with people come to different conclusions, even though I think the matter is pretty self evident.

My original point was that I think it’s a legitimate aspiration for a layman to want old rite holy water for the reasons that were explained to me by two good priests. Of course, it goes without saying it’s no excuse for disrespect for priests or the rites of Holy Mother Church.

 

[felsguy]

Read my post #11. If you ask for greater protection from evil, you can expect greater protection, right? That’s all I’m saying.

So then if we have it blessed with both Rites we’ll have both kinds of protection…or many bless it twice with the old rite and get double the protection.

 

[anonymous1995]

So am I right to say that prayers in both Rites have different petitions but holy water blessed both either has equivalent blessing?

 

[Rich_C]

So then if we have it blessed with both Rites we’ll have both kinds of protection…or many bless it twice with the old rite and get double the protection.

Haha, now you’re just being silly.

 

[Rich_C]

So am I right to say that prayers in both Rites have different petitions but holy water blessed both either has equivalent blessing?

If you look at post #14 in this thread, you can read them yourself. But I think the comment about having both blessings was a joke. No priest I know would blessed holy water again–it’s already holy water.

To keep things in perspective, since it sounds like you don’t have easy access to old blessing holy water, I would let it go. I don’t think you should worry about this unless you’re having demonic encounters, God forbid.

 

[felsguy]

Okay then, if water which had been blessed by the new rite was then blessed by the old rite, would this add more “protection”?

I’m trying to show here the problem I see with your approach to blessings.

 

[chefmomster2]

Okay then, if water which had been blessed by the new rite was then blessed by the old rite, would this add more “protection”?

I’m trying to show here the problem I see with your approach to blessings.

Personally, I would find this in error. It would suggest that the blessing of the priest in the new rite was somehow inadequate.

Think about baptism. In many cases a person baptized in any number of Protestant churches is accepted by the CC. The person is not re-baptized as if the original baptism was somehow inadequate. Presumably the rites were quite different except in the essentials, but there is no superior baptism.

I actually believe the same is true of the two different blessings for water. (I respect those who disagree.) To indicate that one is inferior is to feel God confers “lesser blessings” based merely upon word usage.

 

[chefmomster2]

So am I right to say that prayers in both Rites have different petitions but holy water blessed both either has equivalent blessing?

I would definitely say “YES!”. I also don’t believe that the new rite fails to convey full blessings against the devil. What are blessings for but to fight evil in all its forms and to grace with strength and power all that is Good?

Words do have incredible meaning and beauty and one can certainly prefer one to another. But to interpret using certain words themselves somehow causes a different blessing is, IMHO, akin to magical thinking. The words become some kind of mystical recipe which must be followed to get our “version” of the blessing. I simply cannot imagine that this could be true. One can ask for all of God’s great blessing through any reverent words of faith. There is no “formula”.