Holy Water in Wine

[pcg2]

Is it a required for holy water to be put in the wine before it is consecrated in order for it to be considered valid matter?

I ask because I have noticed over the past month or so that (I believe) a priest and deacon at my parish don’t put the holy water into all the wine before the consecration. We have two large decanters on the altar along with the priest’s own chalice, and the priest (or deacon) only pours the water into the priest’s individual chalice, not into the the two decanters.

 

[MarkThompson]

Is it a required for holy water to be put in the wine before it is consecrated in order for it to be considered valid matter?

I ask because I have noticed over the past month or so that (I believe) a priest and deacon at my parish don’t put the holy water into all the wine before the consecration. We have two large decanters on the altar along with the priest’s own chalice, and the priest (or deacon) only pours the water into the priest’s individual chalice, not into the the two decanters.

Setting aside the question of whether or not it is correct to use decanters (a totally different conversation), what your priest is doing with the water is correct. So if he has six chalices lined up, the water need only be added to one. In fact, the water, although required by the rubrics, is not necessary to the sacrament at all, so if it were omitted the sacrament is still totally valid. (See no. 18 here.) No worries.

 

[pcg2]

Setting aside the question of whether or not it is correct to use decanters (a totally different conversation),

tell me about it.

what your priest is doing with the water is correct. So if he has six chalices lined up, the water need only be added to one. In fact, the water is not necessary to the sacrament at all, so if it were omitted the sacrament is still totally valid. (See no. 18 here.)

Thank you You are always very helpful, Mark.

 

[MarkThompson]

Thank you You are always very helpful, Mark.

Haha, I try at least!

 

[paperwight66]

Setting aside the question of whether or not it is correct to use decanters (a totally different conversation), what your priest is doing with the water is correct. So if he has six chalices lined up, the water need only be added to one. In fact, the water, although required by the rubrics, is not necessary to the sacrament at all, so if it were omitted the sacrament is still totally valid. (See no. 18 here.) No worries.

And holy water isn’t required, either, just plain old water from the tap/faucet.

 

[tbtcom1213]

Deus, qui humanae substantiae dignitatemet mirabiliter condidisti, et mirabilius reformasti,da, quaesumus, nobis eius divinitatis esse consortes,qui humanitatis nostrae fieri dignatus est particeps.

O God, who in a wondrous way created the dignity of human nature,and yet more wondrously shaped it anew, grant us, we beg, to be partakers of the Godhead of Him who deigned to become a participant of our humanity.

In the EF Mass the priest reads this prayer when he adds the water to the wine in the chalice. The water represents our gifts and offering at Holy Mass.

 

[Dicerning]

Nope just water. In fact I prefer tap water because it is fresh. Who knows how long that holy water has been sitting around.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

(See no. 18 here)

Looks like an interesting website. Are the rules there still current? If they are do they apply to both the OF and EF or just the EF? How reliable is the site? The page you referenced says: “On Defects That May Occur in the Celebration of Mass by Pope Pius I : 1570” (my emphasis). Wasn’t Pope St Pius V the Pope in 1570?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Looks like an interesting website. Are the rules there still current? If they are do they apply to both the OF and EF or just the EF? How reliable is the site? The page you referenced says: “On Defects That May Occur in the Celebration of Mass by Pope Pius I : 1570” (my emphasis). Wasn’t Pope St Pius V the Pope in 1570?

Forget these questions. I’ve just gone to the website’s homepage and found it’s the Holy See’s Congregation for the Clergy:blush: But I still think they’ve got their popes mixed up???

 

[MarkThompson]

Forget these questions. I’ve just gone to the website’s homepage and found it’s the Holy See’s Congregation for the Clergy:blush: But I still think they’ve got their popes mixed up???

Haha, good catch. I’m sure it was just a typing mistake or something. That’s the best translation online I’ve found that isn’t on some schismatic website, which is why I linked it.

And I confess I don’t know (but doubt) whether the specific rubrics in De Defectibus are applicable in the OF (e.g., “If the wine is spoiled, then you should . . .”), but it’s certainly sufficient to confirm the theological principle that the water is not necessary to the validity of the sacrifice.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

but it’s certainly sufficient to confirm the theological principle that the water is not necessary to the validity of the sacrifice.

So not adding water to the chalice does not invalidate the Mass (I was going to say invalidate the consecration, but I suppose you either invalidate the whole Mass or not at all).