Home-Alone America

[AlanFromWichita]

Lilyofthevalley:

as for dr. laura i find her to be a mean hearted hypocrite like most ulter conservative people.

I think she has issues. When the exposee exposed her prior exposures of her exposing herself, it seemed to have left a sore spot that has not healed. Notice how she pretty much tried to shut the whole thing up. Maybe if she had kept her clothes shut then she wouldn’t be in this mess. You act like a tramp, you have to pay the price…

Oh wait a minute… I’m starting to sound like her.

Alan

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Alan her issues certainly did come out in her advice. Especially about her views on age differences, and the view that you must absolutely marry someone of the same faith.
The man who exposed her pictures was significantly older than her, and her own parents were of different faiths. I think she means well, but I think she creates a false reality by saying the only acceptable family for a child is a stay at home mom with a working dad.
It’s not a reality. Life happens. For her to present this as the only way to raise children alienates people. Does she think children NEVER experienced hardships and they only happen now because women work??

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Lilyofthevalley:

I think she means well, but I think she creates a false reality by saying the only acceptable family for a child is a stay at home mom with a working dad.
It’s not a reality. Life happens. For her to present this as the only way to raise children alienates people. Does she think children NEVER experienced hardships and they only happen now because women work??

Sounds like she thinks she got a bum deal in life and either sees greener grass everywhere that doesn’t remind her of it, or maybe she’s out to disown everything her own parents were.

I learned some things from her, regarding her style and how the people responded to her. Then the calls all started sounding the same.

Alan

 

[SusanL]

:ehh:

Lilyofthevalley:

a) This has absolutely nothing to do with whether daycare or a SAHM is better for children.​

sure it does blind sheep. people are under the impression there was always this utopia family, dad worked, mom tended the children. fact is it’s a relatively new concept post ww2. people should KNOW that rather than get hostile or try to censor a differing opinion as you attempted to do.
frankly i find children with mom’s who stay at home are pretty dependent on mom for everything. they don’t know how to do laundry and make a meal for themselves.
as for dr. laura i find her to be a mean hearted hypocrite like most ulter conservative people.

Wow. I have to disagree with you on this. I take the idea of raising our kids pretty seriously and so do my friends. We teach our kids how to cook and clean and my dh taught each one (baby excepted) how to read.

IMO, the only situation would be to have one of the parents at home while the kids are home. Kids need guidance and I certainly don’t want the daycare to be teaching them that guidance.

Also, I have friends that have been divorced and they have finagled ways to be home when the kids are home. It can be done but it’s not easy.

I really do attribute a lot of society’s problems with ditching the kids somewhere when it’s not convenient. (Please notice that I’m not saying everybody. I fully realize that there are exceptions). Women have been taught that they should pursue careers or that they have to contribute money. I also put some of the blame on the men who demand that the women contribute.

Parental quality has to begin with quantity of time. I do not believe that you can be as effective a parent as you can be w/o the day to day normalities of life.

Ok. Now I’ve really gotten some people furious at me. ( No name-calling or slanderous talk, everyone, ok?) I am telling you the truth as I see it. Daycare is baaaaaaaaad news.

 

[BlindSheep]

Lilyofthevalley:

a) This has absolutely nothing to do with whether daycare or a SAHM is better for children.​

sure it does blind sheep. people are under the impression there was always this utopia family, dad worked, mom tended the children. fact is it’s a relatively new concept post ww2. people should KNOW that rather than get hostile or try to censor a differing opinion as you attempted to do.

I tried to censor something? What are you talking about? The point is it doesn’t matter when, or for how long, or how often the SAHM arrangement has been done, but what is best for kids - and the research that’s been done shows that a SAHM is better than daycare.

frankly i find children with mom’s who stay at home are pretty dependent on mom for everything. they don’t know how to do laundry and make a meal for themselves.

Somehow your biased opinion doesn’t carry as much weight as the statistics do.

Perhaps you would feel differently if you were not in a state of mortal sin, as you have so proudly proclaimed on other threads. (I doubt very highly you’re invincibly ignorant of the immorality of birth control). Perhaps you wouldn’t be so quick to defend women who put their selfish desires ahead of their children. :tsktsk:

 

[kaymart]

Wow. I have to disagree with you on this. I take the idea of raising our kids pretty seriously and so do my friends. We teach our kids how to cook and clean and my dh taught each one (baby excepted) how to read.

IMO, the only situation would be to have one of the parents at home while the kids are home. Kids need guidance and I certainly don’t want the daycare to be teaching them that guidance.

Also, I have friends that have been divorced and they have finagled ways to be home when the kids are home. It can be done but it’s not easy.

I really do attribute a lot of society’s problems with ditching the kids somewhere when it’s not convenient. (Please notice that I’m not saying everybody. I fully realize that there are exceptions). Women have been taught that they should pursue careers or that they have to contribute money. I also put some of the blame on the men who demand that the women contribute.

Parental quality has to begin with quantity of time. I do not believe that you can be as effective a parent as you can be w/o the day to day normalities of life.

Ok. Now I’ve really gotten some people furious at me. ( No name-calling or slanderous talk, everyone, ok?) I am telling you the truth as I see it. Daycare is baaaaaaaaad news.
[/quote]

Susan You got it right on the money…Daycare and home alone is bad news. And working mother’s are the downfall of our morals. When are they going to get it???

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I suppose if the mother is sufficiently crazy, then maybe the kid is better off in Catholic day care while the mother works? That would have to be pretty crazy though.

Alan

 

[Eden]

Lilyofthevalley:

a) This has absolutely nothing to do with whether daycare or a SAHM is better for children.​

sure it does blind sheep. people are under the impression there was always this utopia family, dad worked, mom tended the children. fact is it’s a relatively new concept post ww2. people should KNOW that rather than get hostile or try to censor a differing opinion as you attempted to do.
frankly i find children with mom’s who stay at home are pretty dependent on mom for everything. they don’t know how to do laundry and make a meal for themselves.
as for dr. laura i find her to be a mean hearted hypocrite like most ulter conservative people.

I’m a stay-at-home mom. I was in daycare during parts of my childhood and it is both to my mom’s and my own regret. If an infant had a choice, of course they would choose a stay-at-home mom. I want the best for my children- emotionally and spiritually not materially. We sacrifice but not the important things like love and time. My mom was a working mom and I didn’t know how to do laundry when I got to college. I think you can say the opposite about dependency as well; that working parents have more dependent children because the parents coddle their children out of guilt. It’s nice to see a discussion that is over-whelmingly in favor of moms at home. What a refreshing break from mainstream propaganda!

 

[netmilsmom]

Lilyofthevalley:

a)
frankly i find children with mom’s who stay at home are pretty dependent on mom for everything. they don’t know how to do laundry and make a meal for themselves.
as for dr. laura i find her to be a mean hearted hypocrite like most ulter conservative people.

I know that you have a different experience that I do, but let me explain to you the things that my children, and I as the daughter of a SAHM learned that the children in Daycare may not learn.

My children (7&5), know how to call the cable company and get results without being rude. They hear their mother deal with people on the phone politely and see those workers come into our house. They see the workers treated well, offered Coffee and the work completed, with a happy smile on all sides.

My children know how to load and unload the dishwasher, with supervision always so the knives point down, every time. They know how to seperate clothes and put them in the washer with supervision from their mother BEFORE a red sock goes in with Daddy’s underwear and it all turns pink.

They know that an adult will always pay attention to them and that they don’t have to compete with 5 other children their ages to get that attention. Therefore they are not “look at me” children when adults are around.

They know how to pick the right bag of grapes at the grocery store. They know that sometimes it is kind to let the lady with two screaming kids and a cart full of groceries go before you in the line. They know that they don’t always get a treat at the store and having “things” is not as important as having attention. They know that although they love looking at the Lobsters in the tank, we can’t afford to buy one (even for a pet!).

They know that it isn’t important that a child likes them because Mommy and Daddy do. They know that the first time they saw snow, Mommy cried at the wonder in their eyes. They know that if they get hurt, Mommy will always find them a hug and a band-aid FIRST and they don’t have to wait in line.

They know how to sweep a floor and watch Mommy clean toilets, not at home but as a volunteer at church. They feel the pride of knowing that they are helping in a way that Father Ben needs. They know how to fold papers and stuff them into envelopes to invite other families to the Ice Cream social at the same church. They love that they are known by their own deeds and not just that they are the kids of someone who volunteers.

They know how to amuse themselves and do not have to have other children around to be entertained. They know that the tv is only on for a short time and always educational shows. They know that if they can’t find something to do, they can always clean their rooms. They know that if they want to buzz out instead, Mommy’s lap is available. They know that Daddy uses weird voices when he reads a book and Mommy makes you sound out words.

They know that Mommy can pick out a kid in Daycare easily. They are annoyed by little “Caillou” children who must always be the center of attention. They don’t like mean kids who dislike them just because they are there and quietly well behaved.

They know how to play with children who are not their age. They know that spiders are not pets and do not belong in the house. They know that if you mix baking soda with vinegar, it propells a rocket, not because they saw someone do it or read about it, but because they both did it last week. They found out that the mix doesn’t taste good. They found out that even film canisters can be rockets.

You may think that the children of SAHMs can’t make it in the real world but I am proof that you are looking through narrow eyes.
I got my own house at 27, was an office manager for 2 Psychiatrists and 5 Therapists. I did it well.

 

[Island_Oak]

kaymart:

… And working mother’s are the downfall of our morals. When are they going to get it???

To each his own opinion…but IMO repeating this sentiment is way over the top and quite uncharitable.

 

[netmilsmom]

Island Oak:

To each his own opinion…but IMO repeating this sentiment is way over the top and quite uncharitable.

It might be over the top but I do not think uncharitable. I think it’s much more charitable to wake people up to the reality of Home Alone children.
In Conyers, GA, a pretty affluent neighborhood where teenagers were left alone while parent worked to maintain their lifestyles, the kids had “Playboy” parties. It became a badge of honor to these kids to get an STD. Yet, the slant on the story was never stated that the kids were unsupervised. Instead they stated the story of the one father who said that even though he was in the house with the kids, he was downstairs while they were up. Only at the end did they even bring up the majority of the households had two parents working and Home Alone kids.
With a majority of SAHMs do you think that this would have happened?

 

[SusanL]

Well, I don’t think that they are the sole reason but add that to so much of what society is teaching and allowing, I think that it contributes to it.

Parents are the gatekeepers. When we turn over that role to someone else, then the trouble begins.

This sort of talk is so hard on the ones who rely on daycare and I am sorry for the pain it is causing you.

I feel bad for a lot of the daycare parents because America has been sold a bill of goods. Quite frankly, due to media and the militant 1960’s/70’s/80/s feminists, we have been lied and marketed to. We are told that we can’t survive w/o that second full-time paycheck. We have been sold on a style of living that is beyond our means. (And a sense of failure if we don’t comply).

We have lost our sense of sacrifice. Wow.

For the portion of daycare parents that only use daycare for the fancy house, material goods and status—they are the ones that I accuse of putting their own selfish concerns before their children. Unfortunetly, their children and the rest of society will pay dearly for their greed.

---

Lord, let me never forget that all good comes from you, that you are my strength in times of trial.

 

[Island_Oak]

SusanL:

Well, I don’t think that they are the sole reason but add that to so much of what society is teaching and allowing, I think that it contributes to it.

Parents are the gatekeepers. When we turn over that role to someone else, then the trouble begins.

Agreed with this more balanced observation.

This sort of talk is so hard on the ones who rely on daycare and I am sorry for the pain it is causing you.

You misapprehend my situation–I am not reliant on daycare–I am a SAHM. I simply disagree with those who want to lay the burden of society’s woes solely on the shoulders of women who work outside the home.

 

[contemplative]

Island Oak:

I simply disagree with those who want to lay the burden of society’s woes solely on the shoulders of women who work outside the home.

I am very glad to hear you are a SAHM Island Oak
The initial thread post does not state that working mothers are solely the cause of all of societies woes.

Being a great proponent of SAHM, I must say that the worst end results of working mothers over the past few decades could yet be seen. I am always hopeful though that the next generation of parents will open up their eyes and value raising children with greater care. I believe this is the trend for newer younger mothers. Unfortunately I have no statistics to share with you. Maybe someone else does?

 

[wabrams]

This whole idea that materialism is something new is just false. With the post-WWII boom in the economy, good jobs were readily available; with that came better incomes, more affordable housing, and a better standard of living. A lot of parents spoiled their children with toys and nice clothes, at least spoiled compared to what the WWII generation had growing up. Guess what? The standard of living slowly has increased as well as the value of the dollar and the household income. Are kids overly spoiled nowadays? To a certain degree, yes. But it is a nearly sixty year old trend. Woman were given educational opportunities that previously had been unavailable. Naturally, they wanted to act on it and thus the rush for women to work began. All of this is a natural reaction to an economic boom after nearly 10 to 15 years of our economy being in a slump.

 

[SusanL]

Island Oak:

You misapprehend my situation–I am not reliant on daycare–I am a SAHM. I simply disagree with those who want to lay the burden of society’s woes solely on the shoulders of women who work outside the home.

So glad I was misapprehending.

It did sound like that and I was feeling bad that we were causing you pain.

There is plenty of blame to pass around for the ills of society.

God bless you, Island Oak.

Sue

 

[sparkle]

Yes, I fully agree with the quote, although it is very wordy, as someone mentioned.

Pitifully, the mother “staying home” seems to be declining rapidly indeed. BUT, I do think we Catholic and Christian families need to be the ones to change this. We need to be not to caught up in the notion of the 2-career family, but be homemakers first and foremost.

I know I am the ONLY woman within blocks of where we live to actually be home, except for 1 old lady. So, sad for me, I have no lady friends to have lunch with! What a pity! I’m looking into joining a woman’s Bible Study once a week or something, need the fellowship!!!

Our children, of all ages, IMO, need Mommy-Care, not day-care!

 

[SusanL]

wabrams:

This whole idea that materialism is something new is just false. With the post-WWII boom in the economy, good jobs were readily available; with that came better incomes, more affordable housing, and a better standard of living. A lot of parents spoiled their children with toys and nice clothes, at least spoiled compared to what the WWII generation had growing up. Guess what? The standard of living slowly has increased as well as the value of the dollar and the household income. Are kids overly spoiled nowadays? To a certain degree, yes. But it is a nearly sixty year old trend. Woman were given educational opportunities that previously had been unavailable. Naturally, they wanted to act on it and thus the rush for women to work began. All of this is a natural reaction to an economic boom after nearly 10 to 15 years of our economy being in a slump.

Materialism definitely isn’t new. It’s as old as scripture. IMO, the kids are super spoiled. And so are the parents. Not all, certainly, but most.

What does matter is that parents are doing a lousy job (generally speaking) of raising their children. They have abdicated their responsibility. Their priorities are skewed.

(I’ll have to write more later. Parenting has just kicked up a few notches. )

 

[sparkle]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I think that the problem is that you and many others feel that they are doing well by enabling these women to continue their lifestyle. One must look at the facts instead of going with feelings.

Closing one’s eyes to be kind doesn’t work. Charity is sometimes being brutally honest.

Hello netmil(name removed by moderator):

I 100% agree with what you say above. The reality is that our sick society is doing just that: Christian or otherwise: enabling women to continue a lifestyle that is harmful to our children. Period. Sure, we all have to do what we HAVE to do, and many of us have felt guilty for leaving our kids elsewhere, (I did for the first 5 years or so of my babies’ lives, which I will never get those days back, and I have learned IT WAS A BIG MISTAKE. See, at the time I thought the same false notion as many still hold to: “I HAVE TO WORK AND LEAVE MY KIDS ELSEWHERE” How false it was. If I realized it, things could have been different, You just make it work! But facts are facts. The declining mom in the home is A SAD FACT, even among school-aged kids. No one is pointing fingers at anyone, here, we do all try to be charitable and understanding. I have never noticed someone deliberately trying to be hurtful to anybody. I’m sorry to ISLAND OAK if you feel this way. I think in this above-mentioned quote, it is merely pointing out a fact.

 

[Island_Oak]

contemplative:

…I am always hopeful though that the next generation of parents will open up their eyes and value raising children with greater care. I believe this is the trend for newer younger mothers. Unfortunately I have no statistics to share with you. Maybe someone else does?

In the most recent edition of “Seattle Child” magazine they quoted a 15% increase in mothers staying home to raise children full time over the past decade. The focus of the artice was on working from home–the latest twist on the mom/employment dilema.

I think is is also important that we don’t lose sight of historical perspective. The phenomena of having the option of keeping one parent in the home and focused exclusively on child care as opposed to sustenance is a novelty in human history that has arisen in the industrialized world in just the last century. Throughout human history it has required the efforts of both parents–whether in factories, agriculture, trades, etc. to sustain the family. In other words it was MORE common historically to have both parents employed outside the home than not.

I understand the argument here that the allure of comfort, wealth, status etc. is driving people without “need” into the marketplace instead of caring for their children. However–somehow human society has survived the condition of working parents for thousands of years–it is neither a new nor unique challenge. The social ills many of us bemoan have also been around since the beginning of human society and are not a new creation of feminist propoganda or soical engineering.