Homeless Man Sleeping in Church

[vera_dicere]

There used to be a methadone clinic near where I live, until the building was damaged and collasped in a recent sesmic event. Anyway, the addicts still frequent the area, and there’s a homeless shelter just around the corner.

So, yeah, I’m used to seeing a few people of “no fixed abode”. I’ve been asked for money, been asked to “buy sunglasses real cheap” et al, but I never give money. Ever. But I do offer to buy them a sandwich or something else to eat or drink. With money, are they likely to go buy booze or drugs? Most likley given their demeanour. Judgemental? Probably, but I don’t see how givinv money to to someone who’s just going to get drunk on it, is actually helping them?

They say they’re hungry, then instead of money, here’s a sandwich. I get a lot of profanity directed at me by some, so obviously they’re not that hungry if they’ll turn down sub-way! Some are more than happy to accept, so there you go.

As for it being a sin? We are required to assist our fellows, but I don’t thinhk Christ wants us getting shot at a bustop because we thought we better give money to a hobo.

 

[Newbie2]

There used to be a methadone clinic near where I live, until the building was damaged and collasped in a recent sesmic event. Anyway, the addicts still frequent the area, and there’s a homeless shelter just around the corner.

So, yeah, I’m used to seeing a few people of “no fixed abode”. I’ve been asked for money, been asked to “buy sunglasses real cheap” et al, but I never give money. Ever. But I do offer to buy them a sandwich or something else to eat or drink. With money, are they likely to go buy booze or drugs? Most likley given their demeanour. Judgemental? Probably, but I don’t see how givinv money to to someone who’s just going to get drunk on it, is actually helping them?

They say they’re hungry, then instead of money, here’s a sandwich. I get a lot of profanity directed at me by some, so obviously they’re not that hungry if they’ll turn down sub-way! Some are more than happy to accept, so there you go.

As for it being a sin? We are required to assist our fellows, but I don’t thinhk Christ wants us getting shot at a bustop because we thought we better give money to a hobo.

I get approached occasionally in downtown Columbus Ohio when I’m there for a conference, and have taken the habit of buying a couple $5 Wendy’s gift cards (there’s a Wendy’s right downtown) and giving them out to anyone who asked for money for food. I suppose they could always trade them for drugs or alcohol, but it’s one step removed from possibly inadvertently enabling a drug or alcohol habit.

 

[themeginthemoon]

I get approached occasionally in downtown Columbus Ohio when I’m there for a conference, and have taken the habit of buying a couple $5 Wendy’s gift cards (there’s a Wendy’s right downtown) and giving them out to anyone who asked for money for food. I suppose they could always trade them for drugs or alcohol, but it’s one step removed from possibly inadvertently enabling a drug or alcohol habit.

If I see someone homeless with a sign that says ‘hungry’, I usually buy them a burger and a bottle of water. No one has ever issued profanity at me, they have always been really grateful. I agree with giving ‘in kind’ as opposed to cash, the problem I have with a lot of posts on this thread is the very negative and condescending attitude. Sure, it’s a safer bet to give food or gift cards, there’s no arguing that… but the series of posts that are so militantly insistent that ‘most homeless people choose to be that way’, they need to just ‘follow the rules of society?’… come on. Nothing is that simple. While I’m a realist, I don’t believe in blaming people for 100% of their problems. Sure, some people have made poor choices… but have you thought about what led to those poor choices? The surroundings in which many people grew up in, that were far less fortunate than their own? Just food for thought. Some people grow up in squalor and somehow turn out alright, but a gifted intellect and sheer luck are often forces at work. The average person cannot easily and with hard work just ‘rise above’ a series of hardships and live a normal life. There are success stories everywhere, but that’s just what they are; success stories. They are not reality for most who grew up in dysfunctional, impoverished households.

And of course, you can state the case of the homeless who came from ‘ordinary homes’ and turned out addicted and homeless. However, those make up a very small minority of America’s homeless, and hardly make an absolute.

I need to bow out of this thread, it’s really getting to me.

I pray for all of you, the homeless, and our veterans… who happen to make up a large population of the homeless.

 

[Newbie2]

If I see someone homeless with a sign that says ‘hungry’, I usually buy them a burger and a bottle of water. No one has ever issued profanity at me, they have always been really grateful. I agree with giving ‘in kind’ as opposed to cash, the problem I have with a lot of posts on this thread is the very negative and condescending attitude. Sure, it’s a safer bet to give food or gift cards, there’s no arguing that… but the series of posts that are so militantly insistent that ‘most homeless people choose to be that way’, they need to just ‘follow the rules of society?’… come on. Nothing is that simple. While I’m a realist, I don’t believe in blaming people for 100% of their problems. Sure, some people have made poor choices… but have you thought about what led to those poor choices? The surroundings in which many people grew up in, that were far less fortunate than their own? Just food for thought. Some people grow up in squalor and somehow turn out alright, but a gifted intellect and sheer luck are often forces at work. The average person cannot easily and with hard work just ‘rise above’ a series of hardships and live a normal life. There are success stories everywhere, but that’s just what they are; success stories. They are not reality for most who grew up in dysfunctional, impoverished households.

And of course, you can state the case of the homeless who came from ‘ordinary homes’ and turned out addicted and homeless. However, those make up a very small minority of America’s homeless, and hardly make an absolute.

I need to bow out of this thread, it’s really getting to me.

I pray for all of you, the homeless, and our veterans… who happen to make up a large population of the homeless.

Excellent points.

Regardless of how someone got there, we’re talking about someone who is in the here and now that doesn’t have a place to stay, doesn’t have adequate or clean clothing, doesn’t get medical care, etc. etc.

People in need are people in need. We have an obligation to help those in need but at the same time have absolutely no standing to judge how they got there.

 

[TrueLight]

To the OP, yes use your judgement. Do not put yourself at risk.

To those who said the poor in Jesus’ day are not the same as the poor in this day and age,remember, there is nothing new under the sun.

Do you think there were no alcoholics or “drunkards” as they said in the Kings James? Yes, even then people were squandering their money on booze.

Even then, there was mental illness.

Being homeless, by itself can cause such havoc to one’s self esteem, it can plummet you into depression.

Being looked upon as a non-person is lousy.

If you volunteer at a shelter, that’s awesome…

Do not however judge those who help without judgment.

Whenever I feel myself turned off by a homeless person, I ask myself, what would Christ do?

Sometimes I steel my heart and ignore that inner voice, but when I “quench” the Holy Spirit, I know that I do.

So be careful and wise, but not cold-hearted.

 

[zenith15]

I have worked extensively with homeless people, and i have also worked extensively with people in prison,. jail. rehabs, shelters, detoxes, etc. I know a great deal about addiction and how it works, and I know that many addictions are dangerous and even LETHAL to quit abruptly, particularly alcohol and benzodiazepines, but also certain other drugs on occasion, such as opioids, especially if the person is not in good health or is pregnant, can be lethal to quit suddenly. SO no, I would n ot be horrified if some homeless person took my ten bucks and bought what they needed to get through the night–if that’s all the time I had to give them.

However, far more often, I would try to spend time with that person–talk with them, find out about their situation, treat them like a human being, see what needs I could provide for. Even drug addicts have other needs–shelter, clothing, food. I would approach them with the idea of rehab, make sure they know what was available for the poor in our area (not much) and that I would be willing to transport them there. Our church hands out big plastic ziplock bags for us to keep in our cars to give to homeless folks with hygiene supplies and non perishable food items. But yes, if I saw someone in severe alcohol withdrawals, who was unable to get a bed in a detox in town (an all tool frequent occurrance), then YES, I would give him/her a few dollars, knowing they would buy liquor with it. I’d rather than than hear they died of a seizure on the street last night in the cold.

Our area indigent hospital does nothing for these people except to possibly give them a dose of an anti seizure drug and a prescription they cannot fill for Librium and cast them back out on the street. Same thing with the jail system. We need MORE treatment beds–REAL treatment, long term treatment, evidence based scientific treatment–for the indigent. But we don’t have it.

 

[martininthefiel]

Amen.

I had a friend who died trying to detox himself from alcohol. My refusal to give an alcoholic money will not get him sober, but it could end-up killing him. That doesn’t mean I give money to everyone who asks–often I simply can’t–or that I am not wary of aggressive panhandlers, but I do try my best to say, “There before the Grace of God go I,” when human confronted by human suffering.

All human beings deserve dignity and respect just by virtue of their being children of God. Charity is a virtue.

 

[csperez]

Watch the dvd " Pursuit of Happyness"

 

[SurlyMermaid]

I have worked extensively with homeless people, and i have also worked extensively with people in prison,. jail. rehabs, shelters, detoxes, etc. I know a great deal about addiction and how it works, and I know that many addictions are dangerous and even LETHAL to quit abruptly, particularly alcohol and benzodiazepines, but also certain other drugs on occasion, such as opioids, especially if the person is not in good health or is pregnant, can be lethal to quit suddenly. SO no, I would n ot be horrified if some homeless person took my ten bucks and bought what they needed to get through the night–if that’s all the time I had to give them.

However, far more often, I would try to spend time with that person–talk with them, find out about their situation, treat them like a human being, see what needs I could provide for. Even drug addicts have other needs–shelter, clothing, food. I would approach them with the idea of rehab, make sure they know what was available for the poor in our area (not much) and that I would be willing to transport them there. Our church hands out big plastic ziplock bags for us to keep in our cars to give to homeless folks with hygiene supplies and non perishable food items. But yes, if I saw someone in severe alcohol withdrawals, who was unable to get a bed in a detox in town (an all tool frequent occurrance), then YES, I would give him/her a few dollars, knowing they would buy liquor with it. I’d rather than than hear they died of a seizure on the street last night in the cold.

Our area indigent hospital does nothing for these people except to possibly give them a dose of an anti seizure drug and a prescription they cannot fill for Librium and cast them back out on the street. Same thing with the jail system. We need MORE treatment beds–REAL treatment, long term treatment, evidence based scientific treatment–for the indigent. But we don’t have it.

Agreed. I could have written this post.

 

[Luigi_Iovane]

Everytime I see a homeless man, I urge my parents to give them money unless I have some. Most of the time they refuse. Do not believe that what you did is a mortal sin, a mortal sin is a sin you do with the complete knowledge that you are doing it. And remember that God forgives everything we do, except refusing to accept Jesus as our only Savior.

Charity is a great virtue, especially when you do it without knowing you are doing it. Keeping your distance is not a bad thing to do, but pushing them away or calling the police is bad in my opinion.

 

[Delaine75]

Most homeless people are homeless by choice. They could be self-sufficient if they wanted to but why should they if they know they can prey on soft-hearted (soft-headed?) people for a handout?

Why do you think they hang around churches? Because they can play you for a fool and put you on a guilt trip at the thought of betraying your Catholic values of charity. Ever notice how street-people say God Bless all the time? They are trying to manipulate your conscious.

That certainly isn’t a very kind thing to say to those of us who help the homeless. You don’t know the situation so you can’t say that EVERYONE could be self-sufficient if they just wanted to. A dear friend of mine has worked hard all of his life and ended up homeless a year ago – certainly not because he wanted to. It isn’t as black-and-white as you are making it seem.

As to the OP – I don’t think you did anything wrong here.

 

[Faith1960]

Most homeless people are homeless by choice. They could be self-sufficient if they wanted to but why should they if they know they can prey on soft-hearted (soft-headed?) people for a handout?

Why do you think they hang around churches? Because they can play you for a fool and put you on a guilt trip at the thought of betraying your Catholic values of charity. Ever notice how street-people say God Bless all the time? They are trying to manipulate your conscious.

Personally, I won’t give money to homeless beggars. I may direct them to a shelter, but that’s all. Giving them money is just a disincentive for them to try and better themselves.

And anyone can better themselves if they want to bad enough and try hard enough.

I have a friend who volunteers with the homeless and according to her, most of the people she’s feeding are just like we are, but they’ve fallen on hard times. I don’t know if that’s true or if it’s something incorrect that she was told.

In my city, we have a lot of people claiming to be homeless and begging for money at some of the highway exits, one exit in particular has them there, a lot.
A few years ago I felt so sad for one of them that I sent DH back to where we’d seen the man to give him some money. A few weeks later, there was a story on the news about a scam where people were claiming to be homeless, begging for money at that same place. I’ve never helped them out since.

Honestly, I’m scared of them. There aren’t homeless people who come into our church that I’ve ever seen, but if I did see them, cruel as it may sound, I’d try to avoid sitting near them.

 

[zenith15]

I have a friend who volunteers with the homeless and according to her, most of the people she’s feeding are just like we are, but they’ve fallen on hard times. I don’t know if that’s true or if it’s something incorrect that she was told.

In my city, we have a lot of people claiming to be homeless and begging for money at some of the highway exits, one exit in particular has them there, a lot.
A few years ago I felt so sad for one of them that I sent DH back to where we’d seen the man to give him some money. A few weeks later, there was a story on the news about a scam where people were claiming to be homeless, begging for money at that same place. I’ve never helped them out since.

Honestly, I’m scared of them. There aren’t homeless people who come into our church that I’ve ever seen, but if I did see them, cruel as it may sound, I’d try to avoid sitting near them.

I tell you what, if I were homeless, I would sure prefer working at just about any job than sitting dirty and humiliated in the blazing sun or freezing cold trying to make eye contact with people deliberately looking the other way to avoid my disgusting or offensive appearance, to beg for a few bucks. That’s no way to live and few–even addicts–want to live that way. But it’s pretty hard to get a job when you have no money, a drug problem, no place to live, no phone, no place to clean up, etc. The (name removed by moderator)atient beds for (name removed by moderator)atient drug and alcohol treatment in my quite large town are pitiful–6 beds at last count for women, maybe a few more for men. Most just get thrown in jail for a few days and released–making it even harder to get a job.

No matter what you have been told, it is just NOT THAT EASY and it is the rare and remarkable person who is able to pull themselves from abject poverty, addiction and homelessness to being Ward Cleaver.

And yes, though I do understand your urge to do so, it does seem cruel, to me, to purposely avoid sitting near them. That is not following the example of Jesus.

 

[nsm]

So after the second time that I was approached by the same man I tried not going to the cathedral anymore. However, it is the only church in san francisco proper that offers daily confession so this week I had to go because of the feast of the Immaculate Conception. Anyway, the coast seemed clear-- I even chose to pray the rosary in the side chapel where the blessed sacrament is reserved – but, yet again, the same exact man came and sat right in front of me. He knelt as if he were praying (and he might have been, that’s between him and God) waiting, like last time for me to stop praying so that he could ask me for money. This time, he must have caught the eye of someone else he asks, because he got up and left for a bit. I have to admit I was relieved. But when I went and got a seat in the main sanctuary he followed me. This time he had a completely different story; he said his mother had died. I resisted giving him the money at first, telling hom that he’s given two other stories in the past and I’d already helped, so he really should get some more reliable help. But, ultimately, I did give him some money because of some of the responses on this board. I figured better to err on the side of kindness.

Here’s the problem:

I cannot continue to be this man’s ATM. How can I tell him to stop bothering me but still do it in a loving way. Its completely ruining my experience of the mass and I am sure it is funding some sort of habit. I don’t think its fair that he’s always targeting me and making me even think twice about going to the cathedral. Some suggestions would be welcome.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

But, ultimately, I did give him some money because of some of the responses on this board. I figured better to err on the side of kindness.

Big mistake

Here’s the problem:

I cannot continue to be this man’s ATM. How can I tell him to stop bothering me but still do it in a loving way. Its completely ruining my experience of the mass and I am sure it is funding some sort of habit. I don’t think its fair that he’s always targeting me and making me even think twice about going to the cathedral. Some suggestions would be welcome.

Next time he asks for money hand him a copy of the Employment Section of the paper instead.

 

[csperez]

Agreed. I could have written this post.

You are infinetissimally blessed!
May your tribe increase!
your actions humble me.

 

[Curious_Seed]

Today I went to daily mass at a Cathedral in a major US city. Before confession, a homeless man came up to each person standing in line, gave his story about being sick with AIDS and asked for money. I gave him money, but I had a funny feeling about it. Just after confession, as I was walking to the pews to sit down for mass, I noticed that another homeless man was sleeping in one of the pews and so I purposefully sat closer to the front to put distance between me and the man. I prayed the rosary and then mass began. Halfway through mass I felt really bad about my actions and I was afraid that I had just walked out of confession only to commit a private (potentially mortal?) sin right away.

I have two questions:

1. Was what I did mortal, or was my sense of sin heightened because I just left confession and prayed the rosary? (My sins have seemed to be really stark now, after starting daily rosary - has anyone else had this occur? Btw, I am not scrupulous.)
2. How do others react to homeless people at Church?

Here’s a bit of background on my interactions with the homeless: My first instinct is always to recoil from homeless people. I am not proud of that. A few years ago, I did just that while walking with one of my friends. As I hurriedly passed, the homeless man called my name. That stopped me in my tracks. I looked harder and noticed that I recognized the man. It was my uncle! After that I felt really convicted about having a heart for the homeless, but my gut reaction has remained the same. Most of this is because they smell bad. A few weeks ago I was eating at a mall eatery in San Francisco and a homeless man sat right next to me and started eating off the plates nearby. He smelled terrible. I lost my appetite and sat uncomfortably silent, another man’s reaction was to shoo him away, and my husband’s first reaction was to give him some food. I wish that my gut reaction was like my husbands! I do try to give money to the homeless if asked (but I am not always consistent).

We will always have the poor with us.

Does that mean we should not help?

Well, of course, we should help.

Is it sinful not to help?

No, it is not sinful not to help.

How much should we help?

As much as prompted by the Paraclete to do so.

It is not to the poor that we are to give without reserve; it is to Christ that we do so.

Of course, that, in turn, might mean to do the same, with the poor.

 

[FNDRB58]

It is neither sinful nor foolish. In a large city with homeless populations, many may be harmless but many are not. There are a lot of homeless who are mentally ill, criminals, etc. Keeping your distance is smart.

Just because they give a hard luck story does not mean you should be trusting or give them money. Catholic social services such as Catholic Charities have a process to help those in need, and the professionals in other social services are equipped to help them.

I am not saying “don’t” help them. I am saying do not feel guilty if you instead give to groups that are equipped to tell the difference between the scammers and criminals and those who are really in need.

There were many homeless people in the area near the abortion clinic where I used to sidewalk counsel. They never once asked us for money. They would pray with us, talk with us, etc, but not ask us for money.

I agree. Neither sinful nor foolish. What you really have to ask yourself is how you feel in your heart about that homeless person or homeless persons in general. If you loathe them, think them less of a person than you, or think of yourself as better than them, which I am sure you do not, then that would certainly be sinful. But it sounds you did what any normal person (Christian or otherwise) would do. Let’s face it. Some homeless people also emit an objectionable body odor that one should not have to tolerate, even in church. I would feel horrible though if my moving to another seat was noticeable to that person. That would make me feel bad. I would ensure that changed seats as discreet and inconspicuous as possible.

 

[zenith15]

So you’re reasoning is that you should give them the money anyway, and they should be allowed to buy the drugs, as opposed to getting off cold turkey. Is this how we are to take care of them?
I am wondering, how many experiences have you had with the homeless or impoverished.
Has anyone ever approached you, given you a hard luck story, and asked you for 40 dollars for gas money, and you’d given them all they needed, only to walk by five minutes later and see them begging for more from other people? Have you ever been encountered by some guy with a great long sob story who asks you for money to help his family, and when you gave him some cash, you happened to see a few minutes later him in the checkout line of the nearest grocery store with a huge carton of Budweiser? I have heard too many phony sob stories, I’m just not a sucker anymore. It is easy for me to tell when people are lying to my face. Always it is cash that they want and only cash. And more often then not it’s in ridiculously large amounts. Again I’m not saying that these people don’t need help; they do, and on multiple levels. But again, doling out cash is almost never the best solution!
My brother and I have actually once tried to help a guy who was unemployed. We would pay him to wash our cars, mow our lawn, etc. We would give him rides to interviews, etc. We did as much as we could to help him get back on this feet. The problem was, our help was not good enough because he lacked both motivation and a good attitude. He was essentially taking advantage of us, he had no intention of getting an actual job. He would be very appreciative when we would give him things, but when we tried to help him actually get to work, he would get frustrated with us. At the interviews, he was disrespectful and rude, and when he wasn’t hired because of his bad behavior, he would be furious and accuse the manager of being racist. We would have to apologize for him. This is an example of a person who cannot be helped. Some of you, if you encountered him, might have given him 10 dollars and sent him on his way. My brother and I did much more than this. I am not sorry that I got taken advantage of by this guy. That’s life. I am glad that my brother and I did more for him than throw money at him, the only thing I am sorry about is that he was not open to accepting real help.

My point is, charity means we should be willing to help when asked. It also means that we should use wisdom and discernment in how to help best. It doesn’t mean that we are to assume that everyone in need is a responsible, honest citizen. Precaution is not the same as prejudice. When we help someone, if they prove to be responsible, then we can be more trusting. It is neither charitable nor prudent to trust everyone completely upon first meeting, and the Lord does not ask this of us.

There is charity using good sense, and then there is “charity” using JUDGMENT, looking down their nose at the poor, and assuming that your donation to a charity will make it’s way to this person.

I have worked with the homeless and mentally ill and addicted for many many years. I have donated to charities, and I have given money directly to homeless folks–some of whom I strongly assumed would use it for drugs or alcohol. There is no magic door to free rehab beds for the mentally ill and indigent in our city. Shelters turn away hundreds nightly, especially in the winter, and can be extremely dangerous and violent places, especially for women and kids. The current wait list for section 8 housing in my area is 8 years. It’s very hard to get a job with an addiction, no place to live or clean up, no decent clothing, no phone number, etc–and if you ARE getting any benefits, they will be cut off when you get any kind of job–and the job may well pay less money. In my area, the average “living wage” for a single adult in a one room efficiency is about $16 an hour. Minimum wage is less than half that.

Yes, an addict may use your money for liquor or opiates or tranquilizers–but if they are severely addicted to these substances, they could go into seizures and DIE without them. Dead addicts don’t recover. I will do anything within my power to help someone into treatment (which is very rarely available on demand–there are usually long waits and by the time their name comes up, who knows where they may be? It’s miserable standing on street corners getting rejected, spat on, yelled at, made fun of, in all kinds of weather–I daresay no one enjoys it. They simply see no way out. If my money goes to keep someone from dying from withdrawals in the snow, I don’t have a problem with that nor do I see it as a “con”. If they stood out there and said “I need money for Xanax”, no one would give them anything, so they make up a more sympathetic story. But frankly I think being in that situation IS pretty sad without any embellishment, and a burger and a lecture do not hold off the rigors of alcohol withdrawal.

 

[zenith15]

Let’s face it. Some homeless people also emit an objectionable body odor that one should not have to tolerate, even in church. I would feel horrible though if my moving to another seat was noticeable to that person. That would make me feel bad. I would ensure that changed seats as discreet and inconspicuous as possible.

I understand what you mean, but your words make me feel sad. These lost souls have come to God’s home to seek perhaps warmth, maybe a friendly word or a few moment’s rest. They smell bad because there is nowhere for them to clean up and wash clothes. When I used to work at a large chain bookstore, we had homeless folks come in and try to clean up in our bathrooms as best they could and we were always told to toss then out if we saw them. I cannot imagine that God would not want these people in his church, nor would he want them isolated, ignored, treated as though they were lepers. SO they smell bad–so what? Yes, it’s unpleasant–just as it must have been somewhat unpleasant to Christ when he healed lepers, people with “offensive” diseases, people possesed by demons–but he didn’t move away waving a hanky before his nose. These people, more than anyone else, need our love and compassion, our touch, our smile. Use good sense of course–if someone is behaving in an out of control manner, call the police–but bad odors and shabby clothes? What if Mother Theresa had let those things stop her?