Homeopathic crystal-based cures?

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FiveLinden said:
Sometimes Christians make claims that can be tested: ‘incorrupt saints’ bodies’; ‘miraculous cures’. When these are tested in the same way as homeopathy, they have the same result.
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Can you share links to these studies that: “are tested in the same way as homeopathy, they have the same result.”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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@Brian_K

But it doesn’t do that. A rock is orderly arrayed. So is a leaf. Or a graft of skin. Or a computer microchip. You can’t eat them or rub them or be around them and experience any benefits unless the body can absorb something as a chemical compound, like a drug or tonic, or if it can affect a person, like music.

It’s not (necessarily) New Age but the person is looking for something that has no means of doing anything. It’s like homeopathy, which is just water. There’s nothing in it but water.
 
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It might make a person respond a certain way but you can’t prescribe it as a kind of medicine. A person can drink tea and reliably experience the anti-oxidant properties, or they can take a painkiller for pain relief, but a crystal is just a crystal and drop of water is a drop of water.
 
Nicene said:
“are tested in the same way as homeopathy, they have the same result.”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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When ‘miracles’ are examined they are found to have likely natural causes or to result from placebo or testing conditions are so poor no result can be determined. If you could find a result in which a ‘miracle’ is claimed to have occurred where the previous condition was properly attested, where the consequent condition was attested in double-blind conditions (i.e. the person investigating did not know that s/he was testing for a miracle) and where people with similar pre-existing conditions were compared for morbidity over a similar time and results adjusted for other variables I’ll look harder for countervailing evidence.

The fact is that claimed modern miracles are nothing like as impressive as the miracles claimed in scripture. No people blind since birth see, no one is raised from the dead, no water is turned to wine, no loaves and fishes multiply, no one walks on water, parts the sea or walks through walls. Instead miracles are claimed for conditions which typically have a rate of spontaneous remission. Those seeking miracles are also likely to have been previously treated with scientific medicine, even if they have stopped.

If God wished to do miracles as a sign, why would God not do miracles that were clearly miracles as he is said to have done in biblical times? If a miracle needs faith, it is not sign, since it proves what is already believed and is therefore pointless.
 
Well if they claim it helps on a medical level, i would say there is no proof of this. If they claim it has some spiritual healing I would say it ia either fake or Satanic.
 
I notice you cut out the first part of the question where I asked for links to the studies which you implied you were citing. A subjective opinion of you own is not what was asked.

So once again could you supply the links to the research and studies.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
FiveLinden said:
Thank you for the interesting link. Nothing in it I am afraid to alter my view.
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I think I must not understand you correctly.
I thought you said that scientists who look at claimed cures that the Church has found to plausibly be miracles have looked at the same evidence and find that it fails the test–that these aren’t really observations that current scientific understanding cannot explain.
Well, no, that isn’t what they say. They don’t give an attribution, such as saintly intercession, but they generally do agree that these are cures for which there is nothing known to medical science that can give any other explanation.
You’re saying that you don’t really care if you are saying something that isn’t true? Or are you saying that you don’t care if there are substantial cures that cannot be explained? I’d think you’d at least want to know whether there was some reproducible mechanism behind such a thing?
 
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TK421 said:
but a crystal is just a crystal and drop of water is a drop of water.
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This is what I have been attempting to discern - thank you. I had heard there may have been some occult connection. If my friend is simply wasting her money, that is sad but not worrisome to me. But if she is dabbling in some “gateway” evil, I know she’s want to know! Years ago I’d looked into this topic and seen something about evil spirits in connection to homeopathy so I was just checking to see if that’s a reputable or current belief.
 
PetraG said:
They don’t give an attribution, such as saintly intercession, but they generally do agree that these are cures for which there is nothing known to medical science that can give any other explanation.
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Medical science finds probably millions of events every day that ‘cannot be explained’. I had an operation. Afterwards I developed an extreme reaction to sauerkraut. Science cannot explain this. But it does not, in my view, most likely have a spiritual cause.
 
FiveLinden said:
Medical science finds probably millions of events every day that ‘cannot be explained’. I had an operation. Afterwards I developed an extreme reaction to sauerkraut. Science cannot explain this. But it does not, in my view, most likely have a spiritual cause.
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On the other hand, if a scan/x-ray/ultrasound just prior to your operation showed nothing needing operating on, and people had been praying for your healing, that might warrant investigation as a possible miracle.
 
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Crocus said:
On the other hand, if a scan/x-ray/ultrasound just prior to your operation showed nothing needing operating on, and people had been praying for your healing, that might warrant investigation as a possible miracle.
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Why? Spontaneous remission happens all the time. Would an unknown natural cause not be a far more likely explanation? The prayer-healing sequence does not imply that one caused the other, any more than the use of a homeopathic remedy followed by cure means the remedy caused it.
 
Crocus said:
Nicene asked already:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) Nicene:
So once again could you supply the links to the research and studies.
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You cannot research or study miracles for exactly the same reason you cannot research or study homeopathic effects. That is the scientific approach.If I say I have a rock that cures cancer and carry it around cancer wards, inevitably someone will get better. That’s where the study ends, unless I can replicate the apparent coincidence in controlled trials. That has never happened with modern miracles, all of which to me can be explained by coincidence, or lack appropriate observational evidence.
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Brian_K said:
The structure of a crystal as an orderly array of atoms may trigger some impulse or emotion or temperament in a person. Kind of like the power of positive thinking. Concentrating to beauty and goodness would seem more likely to trigger the body’s healing mechanisms versus focusing on the negative. Not that the crystal contains “magic”, but if it was, say, given to you by a good friends and it triggers good feelings about them and about life and that helps someone deal better with a challenge, I wouldn’t think there was any harm in it, so long as we remember that all the good things we might receive come from God.
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Crystals are minerals, plain and simple. Their structure is such that the atoms arrange themselves to form pretty crystalline forms. But they are still minerals.

The only trigger /impulse is oh what a lovely rock, (especially if viewing a valuable gemstone, diamond, ruby, pearl , you get the idea :))

They have no ability to heal, none, they hold no power. There is nothing trapped inside them that could be considered a power to heal or be negative.

Give the mineral graphite as a Crystal in the form of a diamond to your girlfriend and it is going to trigger great feelings or angst.
Give the mineral graphite as a crystal in the form of a graphite pencil and it will trigger great feelings or angst if she is an artist .

There is great harm in it, because the occult
 
FiveLinden said:
Medical science finds probably millions of events every day that ‘cannot be explained’. I had an operation. Afterwards I developed an extreme reaction to sauerkraut. Science cannot explain this. But it does not, in my view, most likely have a spiritual cause.
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No, we’re talking about an entirely different league of “cannot be explained.” No one put you under scrutiny and concluded that there weren’t other similar cases that commonly happen. I agree that it is a matter of faith when it comes to the cause. My disagreement is that the claims of extraordinary cures do not stand up to scutiny. That is simply not true. Rank-and-file Catholic (or anyone else) can say they received a miracle, but that is quite different than the standards for establishing a miracle that the Church would say it is acceptable to consider some particular healing as a work of grace. You may not realize it, but the current standard for that is very high.
 
PetraG said:
the standards for establishing a miracle that the Church would say it is acceptable to consider some particular healing as a work of grace. You may not realize it, but the current standard for that is very high
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Where are the results of these investigations published and subject to peer review, like all good science?
 
The most homeopathy can do is promote a placebo effect- which can actually be kind of powerful.

It’s snake oil though- as others have said.
 
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