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Capt_K
Guest
Gee, I got the same answer as Calvin. And He said that your spirit is the wrong one.Sorry Calvin,wrong spirit. If you understood it we would not be having this conversation.
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MariaG
Guest
Respectfully, this is the exact point. There are a ton of people out there who say the Holy Spirit told me… The Holy Spirit told Luther that which contradicted 1500 years of Christianity? The Holy Spirit spoke to Wesley? So how do I know the Holy Spirit did not inspire Joseph Smith? JW’s? Whose claim of the Holy Spirit do I follow?
The Holy Spirit cannot be the Spirit of contradiction, even in the “small matters” of division in Protestant churches. (Homosexuality is not a small matter, neither is ordination of women, )
Spokenword, Homer, and others,
For every person who says the Holy Spirit is leading me to all truth, I can show you another who says the same thing but was lead in the opposite direction. How is a person who is not a Christian at all to know who interprets the Bible truly?
This is the reason I came home to the church Christ established, the church written about in the scriptures. The church that the Bible tells us to hold fast to the words we have written and SPOKE to you. Your church has lost Christ’s oral words. Since the Christ says my words will never perish, I put my faith in Christ and the only Church that still follows those oral teachings in conjunction with the written ones too.
God Bless
The Holy Spirit cannot be the Spirit of contradiction, even in the “small matters” of division in Protestant churches. (Homosexuality is not a small matter, neither is ordination of women, )
Spokenword, Homer, and others,
For every person who says the Holy Spirit is leading me to all truth, I can show you another who says the same thing but was lead in the opposite direction. How is a person who is not a Christian at all to know who interprets the Bible truly?
This is the reason I came home to the church Christ established, the church written about in the scriptures. The church that the Bible tells us to hold fast to the words we have written and SPOKE to you. Your church has lost Christ’s oral words. Since the Christ says my words will never perish, I put my faith in Christ and the only Church that still follows those oral teachings in conjunction with the written ones too.
God Bless
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_Christopher
Guest
“If Christ had not entrusted all power to one man, the Church would not have been perfect because there would have been no order and each one would have been able to say [that] he was led by the Holy Spirit.” - Martin Luther - (Sermo in Vincula S. Petri, “Werke” Weimar edition, I, 69)
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_Christopher
Guest
If homer isn’t really interested in Bible study, is it possible that he is a troll that is simply posting anti-catholic garbage in order to get a rise out of us?
Hmmmm.
Hmmmm.
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Calvin
Guest
You are right. Silly me I forgot to “test the spirits” (1 Jn 4:1-6) and was listening to the wrong one. The “burning in my bosom” tells me that you are right and Capt K is wrong. We should pray for him to see the light.Sorry Calvin,wrong spirit. If you understood it we would not be having this conversation.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
MARIA As christians,We have one faith, one hope, one body, one spirit, one Lord, one baptism,one God and Father of all. Ephesians 4 vs4-6. God Bless.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Calvin, Thank God we as christians have the same spirit that will correct us when we are in error. The Holy Spirit does not contridict itself. God Bless.You are right. Silly me I forgot to “test the spirits” (1 Jn 4:1-6) and was listening to the wrong one. The “burning in my bosom” tells me that you are right and Capt K is wrong. We should pray for him to see the light.
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Katholikos
Guest
Spokenword, you’re half right. The Holy spirit does not contradict Himself. (The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, not an it.) So He certainly is not leading all of those thousands of denominations to different answers to the same questions. Or is he only leading you and Calvin?Calvin, Thank God we as christians have the same spirit that will correct us when we are in error. The Holy Spirit does not contridict itself. God Bless.
Homer (or an impersonator?) has started another provacative thread, but he didn’t show up here! He’s going through the Fundamentalists’ list of “Catholic errors.” Poor fellow. You can lead a man to Truth but you can’t make him think.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Thanks for pointing out the grammer error. I was not to good in english.Spokenword, you’re half right. The Holy spirit does not contradict Himself. (The Holy Spirit is the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, not an it.) So He certainly is not leading all of those thousands of denominations to different answers to the same questions. Or is he only leading you and Calvin?
Homer (or an impersonator?) has started another provacative thread, but he didn’t show up here! He’s going through the Fundamentalists’ list of “Catholic errors.” Poor fellow. You can lead a man to Truth but you can’t make him think.
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MariaG
Guest
spokenword,
as Christians we are supposed to have one faith, one hope, one spirit, but whether you wish to admit it or not, Protestants do not have all that, officially or unofficially. At least Catholics have one Official set of beliefs based on Scripture. (You notice I do not add Tradition, since Tradition is also Biblically based.)
The Bible talks of a Church. Whose church has the true teachings of Christ. You can dodge the question again by saying the Holy Spirit but it doesn’t change the fact that Christ Himself talks of His Church. It cannot be invisible for that is contrary to scripture. There is a visible church with the true teachings inspired by the Holy Spirit. You just refuse to lift the blinders Satan has thrown over you eyes to see that the Holy Spirit resides, in full, in the Catholic Church.
God Bless
as Christians we are supposed to have one faith, one hope, one spirit, but whether you wish to admit it or not, Protestants do not have all that, officially or unofficially. At least Catholics have one Official set of beliefs based on Scripture. (You notice I do not add Tradition, since Tradition is also Biblically based.)
The Bible talks of a Church. Whose church has the true teachings of Christ. You can dodge the question again by saying the Holy Spirit but it doesn’t change the fact that Christ Himself talks of His Church. It cannot be invisible for that is contrary to scripture. There is a visible church with the true teachings inspired by the Holy Spirit. You just refuse to lift the blinders Satan has thrown over you eyes to see that the Holy Spirit resides, in full, in the Catholic Church.
God Bless
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Calvin
Guest
How Catholic is that statement?
My understanding was that, Scripture and Tradition are consistent with each other and, indeed, may compliment each other, but that it is improper, from a Catholic perspective, to say that Tradition is based on Scripture.
After all that is what the Protestants are trying to do – only have traditions that are based on Scripture!
I have seen some Catholics who say that Scripture is part of Tradition or that there are two sources for Faith (Scripture and Tradition) but I have never seen a Catholic claim Tradition is based on Scripture.
The apologetic material I have read seems to follow my view – apologists are trying to show that Scripture and Tradition are consistent or complimentary not prove that Scripture is the basis. That is a Protestant way of thinking – to look for a Scriptural basis for something. At it’s heart, a Catholic apologetic is a plea to accept the authority of the Church and, on the basis of that authority, to accept Scripture and Tradition.
“He who wants God as his Father, must first have the Church as his Mother.”
Am I misunderstanding something?
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
spokenword,
as Christians we are supposed to have one faith, one hope, one spirit, but whether you wish to admit it or not, Protestants do not have all that, officially or unofficially. At least Catholics have one Official set of beliefs based on Scripture. (You notice I do not add Tradition, since Tradition is also Biblically based.)
The Bible talks of a Church. Whose church has the true teachings of Christ. You can dodge the question again by saying the Holy Spirit but it doesn’t change the fact that Christ Himself talks of His Church. It cannot be invisible for that is contrary to scripture. There is a visible church with the true teachings inspired by the Holy Spirit. You just refuse to lift the blinders Satan has thrown over you eyes to see that the Holy Spirit resides, in full, in the Catholic Church.
MARIA As christians,We have one faith, one hope, one body, one spirit, one Lord, one baptism,one God and Father of all. Ephesians 4 vs4-6. This is for all christians. Do you see the RCC in this Verse. It does say one body which includes all christians. I do agree with your statement that the catholic [universal] church has that fullness.
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MariaG
Guest
Calvin,
Protestant Religions ignore teachings in the Bible that they choose not to agree with. One of those is Tradition.
1Cor 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditiohns just as I delivered them to you.
2 Thess 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
I could go on and on with Bible Scripture that speaks of following ALL of the words given to them either by word or letter.
Since I am a revert, most of my original Bible study was done with Protestants. I do tend to think and speak that way. However, it doesn’t change the FACT that from a Protestant wording, Tradition is based on the Bible (see the above Scripture quotes) or a Catholic wording that they complement or are consistent with Scripture since from the Catholic perspective, Oral Tradition came first.
And sometimes I choose to use the words of my protestant brothers and sisters since frequently I think the only difference in our beliefs is the word choice getting in the way.
Respectfully, I think you tend to ignore the content of posts and focus on one or two word choices in order to ignore the point of the post. I try to respond in Christian Charity and ignore minor word choices if they do not change the truth of a statement.
God Bless
Protestant Religions ignore teachings in the Bible that they choose not to agree with. One of those is Tradition.
1Cor 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditiohns just as I delivered them to you.
2 Thess 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
I could go on and on with Bible Scripture that speaks of following ALL of the words given to them either by word or letter.
Since I am a revert, most of my original Bible study was done with Protestants. I do tend to think and speak that way. However, it doesn’t change the FACT that from a Protestant wording, Tradition is based on the Bible (see the above Scripture quotes) or a Catholic wording that they complement or are consistent with Scripture since from the Catholic perspective, Oral Tradition came first.
And sometimes I choose to use the words of my protestant brothers and sisters since frequently I think the only difference in our beliefs is the word choice getting in the way.
Respectfully, I think you tend to ignore the content of posts and focus on one or two word choices in order to ignore the point of the post. I try to respond in Christian Charity and ignore minor word choices if they do not change the truth of a statement.
God Bless
C
Calvin
Guest
Hi MariaG,
I could have guessed you were influenced by Protestants and that was the heart of my question: you seemed to be thinking about Scripture and Tradition as a Protestant would, not as a Catholic should.
(Please believe me that I’m not attacking you or accusing you of doing anything wrong – I’m just trying to learn how Catholics do things. I’m 3 months from RICA so this is my only outlet for questions! If it seems like I am attacking you – it is only because of the poor medium of internet communications.)
But, respectfully, I think your word choice does change the truth of your statement. If Tradition is based on the Bible, I would not need the Church since I already have a Bible. If Tradition is something separate from the Bible, then I do need the Church as a teacher to stand over and interpret Tradition (and Scripture) for me.
I agree with you that Tradition is referred to in the Bible. I do not believe Tradition is defined by the Bible. There is a movement of Protestants called Restorationists who do believe that Tradition is based on the Bible and, as such, only do traditions mentioned in the Bible and nothing else. If I believed that Tradition was defined by the Bible I would be investigating Restorationism not Catholicism.
-C
I could have guessed you were influenced by Protestants and that was the heart of my question: you seemed to be thinking about Scripture and Tradition as a Protestant would, not as a Catholic should.
(Please believe me that I’m not attacking you or accusing you of doing anything wrong – I’m just trying to learn how Catholics do things. I’m 3 months from RICA so this is my only outlet for questions! If it seems like I am attacking you – it is only because of the poor medium of internet communications.)
But, respectfully, I think your word choice does change the truth of your statement. If Tradition is based on the Bible, I would not need the Church since I already have a Bible. If Tradition is something separate from the Bible, then I do need the Church as a teacher to stand over and interpret Tradition (and Scripture) for me.
I agree with you that Tradition is referred to in the Bible. I do not believe Tradition is defined by the Bible. There is a movement of Protestants called Restorationists who do believe that Tradition is based on the Bible and, as such, only do traditions mentioned in the Bible and nothing else. If I believed that Tradition was defined by the Bible I would be investigating Restorationism not Catholicism.
-C
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