Homeschool pros and cons

[UbiCaritas]

I suppose my points of all of this are:

–Yes, homeschooled children can be properly socialized (“socialized” meaning “capable of working and doing activities with peers”), but it takes extra work from the parents to ensure that will happen;

–Both parents have to be on board with it, like with any other educational decision, and both should be flexible enough to recognize when something isn’t working;

–Avoid extremists like the plague. There are a lot of them in homeschooling circles. Beating your children regularly with a belt, switch, paddle or what-have-you for a “rebellious and worldly spirit” (exemplified by, say, doing a chore promptly and efficiently but without smiling happily about it, or looking at a toy in a store, or, as a teenage girl, having the fact that you have breasts be obvious no matter what style or size of shirt you wear) may garner good behavior…temporarily. It won’t make them a better person. This kind of thing happened in my homeschooling circles. Doesn’t happen in all of them, but it does happen, and when one parent sees results and gushes to others about it, the next thing you know a half-dozen of them are doing the same thing. After all, it’s your job to get your kid to Heaven by any means possible, right? And it’s just “the world” saying that beating your children is wrong! Don’t listen to “the world,” “the world” is from the devil! (OP, I doubt you’d do these things; I only mention them because I want you to know what happens in a lot of the more conservative and extreme homeschool circles.)

–So long as both parents are dedicated to the idea of a good education, your children will probably be head-and-shoulders above many of their peers in terms of the breadth and depth of their education. However, a determined student in a good public school will, with guidance, also be far better-educated than many of their peers. As with any opportunity, you get out of it what you put into it.

 

[DanielJT]

You have enough time to do a lot of research. Have a look at child psychology and development, and see what both sides say about socialisation, both pro and against home education. (I am now convinced that a traditional school is not the optimal environment for socialization.)

What did you mean here about it not being the optimal environment? I mean, I think I have an idea, but are their studies you read?

 

[UbiCaritas]

If you are considering homeschooling, you have a wide selection of wonderful Catholic material out there to choose from. You do not have to be an expert in all subjects to be a successful homeschool teacher. When it comes to high school, we outsource the more difficult subjects to our local college and earn dual credits, too. Obviously that’s not something you need to worry about right now, but something to keep in mind.

This. This. This. DH had his associates’ degree by the time he graduated high school. There are some educational areas in which a parent in a kitchen cannot possibly compete with a school and its resources. High-school science is a BIGGIE. Unless you are millionaires, you are not going to have a dedicated chem lab in your house. Why not outsource it to someone with a degree in chemistry and a well-stocked lab, and have your kid be that much closer to finishing school in the bargain?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

What did you mean here about it not being the optimal environment? I mean, I think I have an idea, but are their studies you read?

I’m so sorry but I don’t have my computer with me and all my links are there. Basically, the criticism of the classroom dynamic stresses child’s co-dependency on their peers, both psychological and emotional, and spending most hours of the day with the peers rather than family reinforces that. Then there is the pack mentality where the children follow the most prominent personality in the group. Then the need to conform to the group dynamic.

Critics also say that the classroom is a very artificial environment. You put 20-30 kids of the same age together, while in other areas of life we are never in such an environment again. We are surrounded with people from different age groups, different backgrounds. The classroom doesn’t necessarily prepare the children to learn to interact with people different from them. (I know from personal experience that it was very difficult for me to get out of that mentality. I was in my late 20s when I finally learned to relate to people who were of a different age than me.)

And finally, there are so many agents of socialization, the school setting being one of many.

If you are thinking where to start from, I can offer a few titles.

Susan Bauer’s *‘The Well Trained Mind’ *started it all for me. Hers is a (neo) classical approach. The book explains it all in detail, and suggests how to structure all the subjects, with textbook titles and all. It is a great resource. This is the website: welltrainedmind.com/
It has some of the chapters from the book that deal with child development and how to teach different age groups, etc.

Before I read it I thought I would supplement my children’s schoolwork at home, but afterwards I had a very different idea of why I wanted to home educate and how. Even if you are not interested in a classical approach I think it would be a good source of information.

I was recommended to read John Holt. John Holt was a professional teacher who began to think that the way children were taught in the classroom wasn’t the best way. Thinking that he might be able to influence other teachers to change, he wrote How Children Learn, and How Children Fail (I forget which one came first), then Instead of Education, What do I do on Monday, and, um, I think there was another one, but I cannot remember. When he realized change was not happening, he wrote Teach Your Own, all about homeschooling. He started a newsletter called Growing Without Schooling in 1977, and it was published until 2001 (he passed away in the 80s, and GWS continued to be published by Pat Farenga). John Holt coined the term “unschooling.” This is not what I want to do, but I found him interesting nevertheless.

Mary Pride was a big influence on homeschooling in the late 80s-early 90s. She wrote The Way Home, about her own journey from a Women’s Lib proponent to a homeschooling mother of 10 children. She also wrote the first book that reviewed homeschooling materials and whatnot, The Big Book of Homeschooling.

Charlotte Mason had some interesting ideas about how children learn. I think it is useful to read about them as well.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I’m so sorry but I don’t have my computer with me and all my links are there. Basically, the criticism of the classroom dynamic stresses child’s co-dependency on their peers, both psychological and emotional, and spending most hours of the day with the peers rather than family reinforces that. Then there is the pack mentality where the children follow the most prominent personality in the group. Then the need to conform to the group dynamic.

Critics also say that the classroom is a very artificial environment. You put 20-30 kids of the same age together, while in other areas of life we are never in such an environment again. We are surrounded with people from different age groups, different backgrounds. The classroom doesn’t necessarily prepare the children to learn to interact with people different from them. (I know from personal experience that it was very difficult for me to get out of that mentality. I was in my late 20s when I finally learned to relate to people who were of a different age than me.)

And finally, there are so many agents of socialization, the school setting being one of many.

If you are thinking where to start from, I can offer a few titles.

Susan Bauer’s *‘The Well Trained Mind’ *started it all for me. Hers is a (neo) classical approach. The book explains it all in detail, and suggests how to structure all the subjects, with textbook titles and all. It is a great resource. This is the website: welltrainedmind.com/
It has some of the chapters from the book that deal with child development and how to teach different age groups, etc.

Before I read it I thought I would supplement my children’s schoolwork at home, but afterwards I had a very different idea of why I wanted to home educate and how. Even if you are not interested in a classical approach I think it would be a good source of information.

I was recommended to read John Holt. John Holt was a professional teacher who began to think that the way children were taught in the classroom wasn’t the best way. Thinking that he might be able to influence other teachers to change, he wrote How Children Learn, and How Children Fail (I forget which one came first), then Instead of Education, What do I do on Monday, and, um, I think there was another one, but I cannot remember. When he realized change was not happening, he wrote Teach Your Own, all about homeschooling. He started a newsletter called Growing Without Schooling in 1977, and it was published until 2001 (he passed away in the 80s, and GWS continued to be published by Pat Farenga). John Holt coined the term “unschooling.” This is not what I want to do, but I found him interesting nevertheless.

Mary Pride was a big influence on homeschooling in the late 80s-early 90s. She wrote The Way Home, about her own journey from a Women’s Lib proponent to a homeschooling mother of 10 children. She also wrote the first book that reviewed homeschooling materials and whatnot, The Big Book of Homeschooling.

Charlotte Mason had some interesting ideas about how children learn. I think it is useful to read about them as well.

Let me second the recommendation for Bauer’s books, though with the caveat that some of her mid-elementary-level (think 3rd grade or thereabouts) history texts are pretty anti-Catholic. However, her basic ideas about education in the classical ideal are very good indeed.

Mary Pride was a big name in some of the more problematic homeschooling groups I described–very into the ideas that a woman must be subservient to her husband and father, must not work out of the home, and that child spacing of any kind, even via NFP, is sinful. (I think she thought that NFP was ok to use as a sort of transition from ABC but that’s its only acceptable use–I could be wrong there.) I’m not sure how she is from an educational perspective, but I find her general philosophy troubling at best.

What you mention about the psychology of the classroom is something I find interesting–going to need to consider that a bit more. If you have time, I’d love to see some links about it. I’ve had a hard time finding a more balanced approach to the idea of homeschooling.

 

[Xantippe]

I guess I forgot to mention, I would be the one homeschooling.

I am a teacher (high school English) but stopped when my first was born and became official SAHF. My wife is a nurse and the income is significantly better, so it just made more sense.

Ah, that’s totally different.

How many kids do you have?

 

[pianistclare]

This. This. This. DH had his associates’ degree by the time he graduated high school. There are some educational areas in which a parent in a kitchen cannot possibly compete with a school and its resources. High-school science is a BIGGIE. Unless you are millionaires, you are not going to have a dedicated chem lab in your house. Why not outsource it to someone with a degree in chemistry and a well-stocked lab, and have your kid be that much closer to finishing school in the bargain?

Yup. Keep in mind that there are very likely Homeschooling Co-ops in your area. The Board of Education can give their contact info. My friends who homeschooled did this. It was a way to have a science teacher that had set up part of her house as a working science lab. The kids went to various homes to find just the right “expert” in a particular subject. The co-op arranged great field trips to museums, aquariums and such for the entire membership of children and parents.
It can be a wonderful experience and a way to meet other types of families. As has been said, beware of hooking up with those that are extremists, and alarmists.
We had one boy who came to our Catholic school in 8th grade after an entire life of homeschooling. He was brilliant, but scared of everything. He had lived like a monk for years. The noise in schools alone set him off. The fire alarm was the worst for him. Poor kid. They need to get out.
I did Seton for a while with my daughter after her daddy died. It’s HARD, but amazing.
A very rigorous curriculum, and great support online and via phone.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Yup. Keep in mind that there are very likely Homeschooling Co-ops in your area. The Board of Education can give their contact info. My friends who homeschooled did this. It was a way to have a science teacher that had set up part of her house as a working science lab. The kids went to various homes to find just the right “expert” in a particular subject. The co-op arranged great field trips to museums, aquariums and such for the entire membership of children and parents.
It can be a wonderful experience and a way to meet other types of families. As has been said, beware of hooking up with those that are extremists, and alarmists.
We had one boy who came to our Catholic school in 8th grade after an entire life of homeschooling. He was brilliant, but scared of everything. He had lived like a monk for years. The noise in schools alone set him off. The fire alarm was the worst for him. Poor kid. They need to get out.
I did Seton for a while with my daughter after her daddy died. It’s HARD, but amazing.
A very rigorous curriculum, and great support online and via phone.

I was much like that boy when I went to public school. I had never been around that many kids! Just getting my books from my locker and getting to the right classroom before the bell rang caused me many panic attacks because of the combination of the huge number of people in the hallway, having to remember every item I’d need for class, and having to get to the classroom and my desk as fast as I could. The noise level in the cafeteria at lunch would have me hunched over a book with my hands over my ears–I couldn’t stand it.

 

[Xantippe]

This. This. This. DH had his associates’ degree by the time he graduated high school. There are some educational areas in which a parent in a kitchen cannot possibly compete with a school and its resources. High-school science is a BIGGIE. Unless you are millionaires, you are not going to have a dedicated chem lab in your house.

Or unless the “home business” involves a lot of chemistry, if you know what I mean…

denr.sd.gov/des/wm/hw/hwmeth.aspx

 

[DanielJT]

This is very important information.

Some of the questions that Xantippe mentioned still apply, albeit to you rather than your wife. It probably won’t matter too much to you that it’ll be hard to find time to go to an hour-long hair appointment every couple of months

Yeah, not so much worried about the hair appointments. Although I must say what my beard is coming in quite nicely.

I have been a SAHF for several years and am (mostly) through the social stigma. And my wife has been a huge support of letting me get out when I need to as to avoid cabin fever.

Ah, that’s totally different.

How many kids do you have?

I have my four-year-old and a two-year-old and one on the way.

 

[UbiCaritas]

or unless the “home business” involves a lot of chemistry, if you know what i mean…

denr.sd.gov/des/wm/hw/hwmeth.aspx

Teehee!

 

[DanielJT]

I’m a child of six, and am currently a homeschooled junior in high school. My parents started homeschooling us when I became a freshman. We were pulled out of a private Catholic school, and love homeschooling.

I definitely enjoy homeschooling, and I highly recommend it versus going to a school. (Not everyone feels this way, but this is what has worked for me) We do a program called Seton Home Study School, a Catholic program, which is highly structured and wonderful! It is awesome because I can finish my work by 12:00pm, starting at 8:00am, and then I usually have the rest of the day to write, draw, play music, clean, computer program, cook, read, etc. Homeschooling has allowed my sister and I to go to college early, and start on associates in whatever we are interested in. (You can attend a community college in my area at age 16) My little siblings are extremely creative, and able to do science experiments outside, play, and explore always. Aside from these things, homeschooling has made my siblings and I closer, and has incredibly impacted out faith.

My only word of caution is to make sure whoever is going to be the teacher is really willing to structure your child’s day. Without structure, it is hard and extremely frustrating to get work done, or focus on anything.

I hope this helps! May the Holy Spirit guide you in your decision! God bless!

Thank you for this response!

You say that it works for you, but not everyone feels that way. Do you mind expanding on that a bit? I ask because my daughter, our eldest, is looking to be a bit of a social butterfly. She loves going to her classes at our Parish and shows no fear on the playground making friends. I am worried that homeschooling might stifle her. But also worried that her wanting to conform to a classroom of others might stifle her naturally joyful personality. Do you have any thoughts on your experience as regards to this aspect?

I love that you mention you and your siblings becoming closer through it. Another reason I have been considering it.

 

[DanielJT]

Or unless the “home business” involves a lot of chemistry, if you know what I mean…

denr.sd.gov/des/wm/hw/hwmeth.aspx

Hmmmm . . .

No, no chem lab here.

I hear those homeschool experiences are quite a bang, though.

 

[DanielJT]

I went to State schools (public) the whole time I was in education (a couple, when my dad was moved). I turned out just fine and still had my ‘faith’. That came from home - my dad, church, family friends etc.
I’m married, have a new baby, went to a top ranking university, have 2 Masters degrees and a very well paying career.
Actually I know no one - and I mean no one - who was home schooled.

My dad (the priest) went to a state school also (in a very poor area I should say) and well he became a priest

Your dad’s a priest?

Did I miss something here? Just curious.

 

[pianistclare]

While I applaud your idea about homeschooling, I would think (for myself anyway) that doing with a toddler and a newborn would be impossible.
And really unfair to the younger siblings.
Just because a child is in a lower grade, doesn’t mean that the schooling is “easy”.
Teachers excel at various age groupings, but not every age group, in my opinion.
Why not allow her to just experience the fun of school while she is small, and then, if the need arises, consider homeschooling them all when they are older?
That way, at least it’s not so much of a solitary experience.
You may be feeling like you “ought” to homeschool because you’re a stay at home dad.
Just thinking out loud here…

 

[Perian]

I don’t think anyone else has mentioned this, but here’s my two cents based on the situation in my social circles. We are reaching a problem of faithful, Catholic families homeschooling for the sake of homeschooling. They do not have an insurmountable financial need and they do not have children who require special education. More importantly, however, they are members of the parishes with the most traditional, solid, rigorous schools. They have excellent schooling options at their disposal but are choosing not to use them. Why? I’m not sure. Their reasons are feeble to the point of inexact.

I support a family’s right to school their children in whichever way is best for them. But, you must ask yourself, can that end be achieved by supporting your Catholic schools? I find it to be undermining when our best families keep their children to themselves rather than sendin them forth into the world to be good examples to the children whose parents are on spiritual autopilot. When I got to college, i wondered why I didn’t have these faithful friends in school growing up. It’s because they never left their homes. Yes, they were intelligent and well formed in their spiritual lives, but, if I may be honest, it just delayed a necessary bump back to reality. They made high school mistakes in college. I know their parents hoped they’d avoid them altogether but it’s simply unrealistic when a child goes without serious testing for 18 years.

That’s my experience. I deeply value my Catholic school experience and consider myself to be a very well-educated, well-rounded person and I still graduated college a year early. My daughter will go to our parish’s school because I know that’s where her most dynamic, enriching experience will be.

 

[Xantippe]

While I applaud your idea about homeschooling, I would think (for myself anyway) that doing with a toddler and a newborn would be impossible.
And really unfair to the younger siblings.
Just because a child is in a lower grade, doesn’t mean that the schooling is “easy”.
Teachers excel at various age groupings, but not every age group, in my opinion.
Why not allow her to just experience the fun of school while she is small, and then, if the need arises, consider homeschooling them all when they are older?
That way, at least it’s not so much of a solitary experience.
You may be feeling like you “ought” to homeschool because you’re a stay at home dad.
Just thinking out loud here…

Yes. Things may look very different once the baby arrives.

From the OP’s description of his oldest, I suspect she would find the social aspects of pre-K or kindergarten a blast.

 

[Xantippe]

Hoosier Daddy is the CAF poster that the OP should probably try to get in touch with by PM, although he may pop into this thread all by himself.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I don’t think anyone else has mentioned this, but here’s my two cents based on the situation in my social circles. We are reaching a problem of faithful, Catholic families homeschooling for the sake of homeschooling. They do not have an insurmountable financial need and they do not have children who require special education. More importantly, however, they are members of the parishes with the most traditional, solid, rigorous schools. They have excellent schooling options at their disposal but are choosing not to use them. Why? I’m not sure. Their reasons are feeble to the point of inexact.

I support a family’s right to school their children in whichever way is best for them. But, you must ask yourself, can that end be achieved by supporting your Catholic schools? I find it to be undermining when our best families keep their children to themselves rather than sendin them forth into the world to be good examples to the children whose parents are on spiritual autopilot. When I got to college, i wondered why I didn’t have these faithful friends in school growing up. It’s because they never left their homes. Yes, they were intelligent and well formed in their spiritual lives, but, if I may be honest, it just delayed a necessary bump back to reality. They made high school mistakes in college. I know their parents hoped they’d avoid them altogether but it’s simply unrealistic when a child goes without serious testing for 18 years.

That’s my experience. I deeply value my Catholic school experience and consider myself to be a very well-educated, well-rounded person and I still graduated college a year early. My daughter will go to our parish’s school because I know that’s where her most dynamic, enriching experience will be.

About the affordability of those schools…

DH makes a good salary–not spectacular, but by the standards of most of the world, quite good. We live in a modest, older, 4-bedroom home whose mortgage payment is extremely reasonable because we saved enough for a decent down payment. We budget carefully in order, in no small part, to save for retirement. Practically speaking, we cannot rely on having social security available when we retire. Nor do we factor into our calculations DH’s supposed pension from his company. It’s a stable company, but a LOT can happen in thirty years. Not planning for retirement would be imprudent at best.

Now, we’d like a bigger family. Because of DH’s salary, we would never be considered for financial aid at a parochial school. That’s fine, and as it should be. I don’t begrudge a single mom making 1/3rd of DH’s salary the ability to send her kid to a better school than her local (probably poor) public school! I only mention this for context.

I once did the math, and if we had 5 kids in school simultaneously (two in high school, three in K-8), which given our ages is hardly impossible, we’d be dropping over $40K per year in tuition ALONE. That’s at the lower-cost Catholic schools in the area, not the higher-priced ones. They’re great schools, from what I can see: orthodox, offer great educational opportunities, have faith really integrated into the classroom, and so on.

None of that, however, negates the fact that there is absolutely no way we could drop $40K into tuition on a yearly basis unless a) we stopped saving for retirement at all (a really stupid long-term decision), b) never went on vacation even to see relatives, and c) lived the next 30-years on a bare-bones, knuckle-clenching, one-repair-bill-away-from-serious-financial-trouble budget. All of those would be imprudent decisions. We don’t think we somehow have a right to take eight kids to Disneyworld and stay at the best resort around, but we also don’t think that given how hard DH and I work, a trip to see DD’s grandparents once a year is unreasonable.

I should add that as tuition goes, our local Catholic schools are, if anything, probably lower than the average cost across the country.

Oh, we could limit our family to two kids via NFP and send them to Catholic schools, but for us “so we can support our local Catholic schools” isn’t a good enough reason to limit our family to two kids. For some people in different situations than ours it might be, but it isn’t for us.

As it is now, most Catholic schools are the purview of

–those with few children,
–those in dire financial straits (our archdiocese has a policy that if any kid in an inner-city public school wants to go to a parochial school, they’ll make it happen, and a good thing too given many of the local big city’s public school ratings), or
–those who are very, very wealthy.

That’s really, really sad. I look at my husband’s siblings, and they’re much like you describe: they would have been intelligent, great kids that would be an asset to any school. Their nearest school–small town, no bigger cities nearby, not a lot of kids–charged 10K per kid at the only Christian private school, and there were no multiple-sibling discounts, either. He had seven siblings. You do the math.

 

[Perry_Mason]

Opinions will vary on homeschooling, but for any parent (including OP) seriously considering it, I suggest he acquire and read any book by John Taylor Gatto. I suggest Gatto’s Underground History of American Education.

Then follow the rabbit down the hole from there. I believe alternative educational models, including homeschooling, are the wave of the future.

It can be hard on both spouses, but I think our Christian mission is to do the best for our children. It is, in my experience, worth the sacrifice of personal time and other more materialistic pursuits. Hard work does bear fruit.