D
- Status
K
KD8TZC
Guest
Oh my!! Amazing links… just what I have been looking for.
Thanks and God Bless!!
John
D
DaveBj
Guest
You’re welcome. That’ll occupy your free time for the next 20 years. I’ve been gradually adding the volumes to my Kindle; I’m in Volume VI of the Ante-Nicene fathers right now (Arnobius).
P
phil19034
Guest
K
KD8TZC
Guest
Thank you as well. Easier to read on the screen with this last one, but as Dave mentioned, the other you can add to your Kindle or e-Reader or print it out (if so inclined) in PDF format.
I guess this begs the question… when you all do your homily, how often will you just use someone’s? Maybe you tweak it a little to fit the community, yourself, period of time, etc, but for the most part, you just go with what someone else has written.
I know this will be talked about in Homiletic’s in the diaconate, but it is a daunting thought to think of having to teach from what is talked about in the readings and the Gospel. I know I will learn A LOT about all this in the diaconate, but this is a scary thought in some ways. I know God will guide me, but still very scary.
God bless,
John
D
DaveBj
Guest
When I mentioned loading them on my Kindle, I should have been more specific. What I meant was that I actually purchase the volumes from the Amazon store. I have included a link to Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers below; note that it costs a whopping $3.03. If you decide to go this route, be sure to get the “enhanced version” of each volume, because they are much easier to use. For one thing, the footnotes are at the end of each section, as opposed to being “end notes” at the back of the volume. Do be advised that the translators and editors are Protestants, so sometimes their bias comes through, but I think you’re probably smart enough to figure out what is textual commentary and what is opinion
amazon.com/Ante-Nicene-Fathers-Enhanced-Version-Church-ebook/dp/B002CMLDTQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1409148534&sr=1-4&keywords=ante-nicene+fathers+volume+1
L
Lapey
Guest
I agree with Dcn. Jeff, never. One of my fellow deacons uses “canned” internet “homily helps” homilies and it is plainly obvious that he does.
Not everyone will be the preacher I am and I am not the preacher Dcn. Jeff is. Within the guidelines of theological teachings of Mother Church the majority of the work is putting the scriptures into your own words. I have borrowed some techniques and maybe even phrases from others, but never as much as a paragraph and much less an entire homily.
K
KD8TZC
Guest
Okay… that is sort of what I figured.
I know when our priest does his daily mass, you can tell he uses something prepared and short as it just isn’t the way he talks. It has meaning, but it just doesn’t come off as genuine though. Being that it is a weekday mass, and I believe those do not require them to have a homily, I think I would rather not have a homily than have one that is ill prepared. I’m sure there are good reasons why priests do use them, as maybe they feel obligated and their schedule is just so busy.
God Bless,
John
I know when our priest does his daily mass, you can tell he uses something prepared and short as it just isn’t the way he talks. It has meaning, but it just doesn’t come off as genuine though. Being that it is a weekday mass, and I believe those do not require them to have a homily, I think I would rather not have a homily than have one that is ill prepared. I’m sure there are good reasons why priests do use them, as maybe they feel obligated and their schedule is just so busy.
God Bless,
John
K
KD8TZC
Guest
The only thing I have to add to that is not everyone is a gifted preacher. What I mean, is they can write out a beautiful sermon and read it and it comes across as very genuine… and i think that is because it is their own words. Granted, they are written down and read, but at least it is their own words.
At my parish, the deacon we have has some beautiful sermons… he reads everyone of them though, but they are genuine. Our pastor on the other hand will write some out and read them and they are very good, and some he does from he top of his head. Yes, the ones who does from the top of his head (or more put, from his heart) are better. Some though I think have a hard time with that. Maybe it is fear, or other things, I don’t know.
God bless, John
At my parish, the deacon we have has some beautiful sermons… he reads everyone of them though, but they are genuine. Our pastor on the other hand will write some out and read them and they are very good, and some he does from he top of his head. Yes, the ones who does from the top of his head (or more put, from his heart) are better. Some though I think have a hard time with that. Maybe it is fear, or other things, I don’t know.
God bless, John
D
DaveBj
Guest
That’s one of the things I miss about not being Southern Baptist any more – the opportunity to preach and teach. However, being in Christ’s Church is more important to me.
T
Tatian
Guest
I disagree. For one, it’s blatantly untrue that reading someone else’s work means not allowing the Holy Spirit to work. This doesn’t even make sense. The Gospels are “someone else’s work” and the Holy Spirit works through them. The holy writings of the Fathers are someone else’s work. You seem to think originality and spontaneity are the key, but they clearly are not. Originality for its own sake typically creates nonsense. St. Augustine himself (since today is his feast) actually proposes to bad preachers to read the homilies of more gifted, more theologically astute preachers. I would much rather hear a good homily written by someone other than the bad preacher than have the bad preacher continue to be bad for the sake of some weird theology concerning inspiration.
I don’t think it would do the Church much good for deacons and priests to stand up in the pulpit and just read one of Augustine’s homilies today. He’s speaking to a group saturated in Scripture - the modern preacher is not (not by a long shot). Nevertheless, we would do well to appropriate the Patristic wisdom and supply it in a modern idiom to the laity. Would that our preachers knew Scripture half as well and loved it half as much as the Fathers - then we would get somewhere. We can and should adopt their methods. Read Augustine’s *Enarrationes in Psalmos * (Homilies on the Psalms) and see not just what he says, but how he arrived there. Look at the underlying theological structure that supports Augustine’s hermeneutic. If you can get to that point, you will undoubtedly be on your way to being a better-formed preacher.
I don’t think it would do the Church much good for deacons and priests to stand up in the pulpit and just read one of Augustine’s homilies today. He’s speaking to a group saturated in Scripture - the modern preacher is not (not by a long shot). Nevertheless, we would do well to appropriate the Patristic wisdom and supply it in a modern idiom to the laity. Would that our preachers knew Scripture half as well and loved it half as much as the Fathers - then we would get somewhere. We can and should adopt their methods. Read Augustine’s *Enarrationes in Psalmos * (Homilies on the Psalms) and see not just what he says, but how he arrived there. Look at the underlying theological structure that supports Augustine’s hermeneutic. If you can get to that point, you will undoubtedly be on your way to being a better-formed preacher.
T
Tatian
Guest
What did I assume?
Secondly, I explicitly said that simply reading their homilies would probably do little good. Nevertheless, I think preachers must recover the spirit of Patristic preaching. Hence Augustine’s Enarrationes - there’s nothing fundamentally different in what Augustine is doing from what you or any other preacher should be doing. Since becoming Catholic I have heard exactly zero homilies preached in a way that even resembles anything Augustinian. This is scandalous - he’s a doctor of the Church. The Church consistently affirms this method of reading Scripture, of seeing Christ on every page, but most priests (out of ignorance of Scripture and temerity) won’t take on the OT in a Christological way. Most of the homilies I hear aren’t even about Scripture or anything remotely theological - they’re typically, “It’s good to be good and nice to be nice.” I’ve seen those homilies get some “attaboys” at the end of Mass too. It’s not a very good indicator of whether a homily was good.
My whole point is simply that as a faithful Catholic who attends Mass daily, who is a theologian, I never hear homilies that really utilize the theological resources the Church has at her disposal. The people want it - preachers I know consistently underestimate 1) Their own ability to do real theology and 2) Their congregation’s ability to hear profound, Catholic truths. I too often hear people who barely know the Bible preach semi-Pelagianism and moral therapeutic deism. I think a recovery of the Fathers would help with this (Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI agrees, btw). If preachers paid more attention to both the methods employed by the Fathers and the underlying theology, their homilies would convert the world.
As a Patristics scholar who teaches theology to undergrads, this is patently false. Augustine, Ambrose, and Chrysostom were all renowned preachers who preached beautiful, reverent homilies to mixed crowds - social elites and the have-nots. I regularly teach kids with no theological background about the Fathers and their theology. Want to know what I often hear? “Why don’t I hear stuff like this from the pulpit?” Good question with a tough answer.
Secondly, I explicitly said that simply reading their homilies would probably do little good. Nevertheless, I think preachers must recover the spirit of Patristic preaching. Hence Augustine’s Enarrationes - there’s nothing fundamentally different in what Augustine is doing from what you or any other preacher should be doing. Since becoming Catholic I have heard exactly zero homilies preached in a way that even resembles anything Augustinian. This is scandalous - he’s a doctor of the Church. The Church consistently affirms this method of reading Scripture, of seeing Christ on every page, but most priests (out of ignorance of Scripture and temerity) won’t take on the OT in a Christological way. Most of the homilies I hear aren’t even about Scripture or anything remotely theological - they’re typically, “It’s good to be good and nice to be nice.” I’ve seen those homilies get some “attaboys” at the end of Mass too. It’s not a very good indicator of whether a homily was good.
My whole point is simply that as a faithful Catholic who attends Mass daily, who is a theologian, I never hear homilies that really utilize the theological resources the Church has at her disposal. The people want it - preachers I know consistently underestimate 1) Their own ability to do real theology and 2) Their congregation’s ability to hear profound, Catholic truths. I too often hear people who barely know the Bible preach semi-Pelagianism and moral therapeutic deism. I think a recovery of the Fathers would help with this (Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI agrees, btw). If preachers paid more attention to both the methods employed by the Fathers and the underlying theology, their homilies would convert the world.
D
Diaconia
Guest
Like many of my brother deacons, I preach once a month. The average preparation time would be ~ six hours. That would include time to slowly contemplate the Scriptures involved, reading and resting with them a number of times. Praying about the feast, consulting commentaries and the Fathers, and putting some thoughts down on [electronic] paper. Finally, reviewing the homily by practicing and timing it.
I’ve been a deacon for ten years, and I probably spent a bit more time years ago, but have the process down a little better now.
The most important part for me is to just leave a day or two in the process to “marinate” in the Scriptures involved before penning anything.
Here’s a few quick pointers for an aspiring preacher:
*]Brevity is powerful - the most common mistake preachers make is to drone on too long, circling and circling instead of landing the plane.
*]Innovation is trendy - the greatest homilies have already been written, hundreds of years ago. Read and sample from the Fathers, and appropriate them in your homilies.
*]Forensics matter - every preacher can improve their ability by working on delivery, timing and developing a story-telling manner.
*]Canned homilies - were not written for your congregation, so leave them in the can. To preach well, you need to know your audience.
The best preparation for a great homily is to understand the sacred texts that are being proclaimed. I wish I would have spent more time studying Scripture in the seminary than I did. In particular, I wish I would have studied Greek more thoroughly.
God bless,
D
djames99
Guest
I think if you were asking the late George Burns, with cigar in hand, and with a pensive look, he could not resist this advice:
“A good sermon should have a good beginning and a good ending, and they should be as close together as possible”.
Seriously, while you are considering these questions which the posters will answer, remember to leave out ambiguous or politically correct, “if I just come out with it, it may hurt my career if I make my congregation uncomfortable” type sermons. If the message has a context, state it. This ploy can be ranked with those listed in Ezekiel. I’d hate to give a sermon and at my judgement God told me 1/3 got it, 1/3 just gave up trying to figure it out, and the rest are still fuming for putting them through the game of “finding Waldo”.
If I finally get to understand what he is trying to say, it always leaves me in a negative light in my opinion of the priest and makes the priest suspect. Coming away with a feeling of self satisfaction is not the goal. BTW: V2 priests are notorious of this protestant style ambiguity, (which is of late contrary to the Pope’s wishes). Old order priests are more direct and respected by the congregation for it.
As an example of this fear, I have heard of a story of a priest who after waiting years for funds from the congregation, just came out and told them their contribution was inadequate for the times. He said something about 5$ donations. He said with the cost of living as it is, the people should offer proportional support to the parish as well. A V2 priest disagreed in his method.
M2C
“A good sermon should have a good beginning and a good ending, and they should be as close together as possible”.
Seriously, while you are considering these questions which the posters will answer, remember to leave out ambiguous or politically correct, “if I just come out with it, it may hurt my career if I make my congregation uncomfortable” type sermons. If the message has a context, state it. This ploy can be ranked with those listed in Ezekiel. I’d hate to give a sermon and at my judgement God told me 1/3 got it, 1/3 just gave up trying to figure it out, and the rest are still fuming for putting them through the game of “finding Waldo”.
If I finally get to understand what he is trying to say, it always leaves me in a negative light in my opinion of the priest and makes the priest suspect. Coming away with a feeling of self satisfaction is not the goal. BTW: V2 priests are notorious of this protestant style ambiguity, (which is of late contrary to the Pope’s wishes). Old order priests are more direct and respected by the congregation for it.
As an example of this fear, I have heard of a story of a priest who after waiting years for funds from the congregation, just came out and told them their contribution was inadequate for the times. He said something about 5$ donations. He said with the cost of living as it is, the people should offer proportional support to the parish as well. A V2 priest disagreed in his method.
M2C
- Status