homily comes AFTER Gospel -- right?

[Mimi]

I’ve been noticing that sometimes the priest (or deacon) will give a talk preceding the 1st reading, then go directly into the Creed after the Gospel.

Is this happening in anyone else’s parish??

I feel we are not getting a homily. Hearing the Word proclaimed is supposed to open our spirit and minds to hearing the words of the priest in the homily (the high point of the Liturgy of the Word after the Gospel).

Unfortunately, people are telling Father they like the Mass this way!

Any suggestions on how I could speak with our pastor about this? He a new arrival, and not newly ordained (though I hear the newer priests are more orthodox).

God bless,
Mimi

 

[CatholicZ09]

This is what the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) states:

Chapter II: The Individual Parts of the Mass > The Liturgy of the Word > The Homily

1. The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended, for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.

1. The Homily should ordinarily be given by the priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to the deacon, but never to a lay person. In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate.

There is to be a homily on Sundays and holy days of obligation at all Masses that are celebrated with the participation of a congregation; it may not be omitted without a serious reason. It is recommended on other days, especially on the weekdays of Advent, Lent, and the Easter Season, as well as on other festive days and occasions when the people come to church in greater numbers.

After the homily a brief period of silence is appropriately observed.

Although the GIRM doesn’t explicitly state that the Homily must come after the Gospel Reading, it is implied that it belongs to the Liturgy of the Word, and after the Gospel.

Source: usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml#sect3b

 

[japhy]

The homily is meant to come after the Scriptures. This is its traditional location, and Vatican II never changed that. It makes sense, doesn’t it, to explain the Scriptures and relate them to the Christian life after the people have heard the Scriptures in question, no?

This order of events is mentioned (implicitly or explicitly) in GIRM 43, 55, 56 and 55-71 (because they list the elements of the Liturgy of the Word in order).

While it is permitted to give a brief introduction to the liturgy at the beginning of the Introductory Rites, that should not be a homily, nor does it replace the need for a homily.

 

[benedictgal]

This is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say on the homily:

[64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,142 “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.143 In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.144

[65.] It should be borne in mind that any previous norm that may have admitted non-ordained faithful to give the homily during the Eucharistic celebration is to be considered abrogated by the norm of canon 767 §1.145 This practice is reprobated, so that it cannot be permitted to attain the force of custom.

[66.] The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association.146

[67.] Particular care is to be taken so that the homily is firmly based upon the mysteries of salvation, expounding the mysteries of the Faith and the norms of Christian life from the biblical readings and liturgical texts throughout the course of the liturgical year and providing commentary on the texts of the Ordinary or the Proper of the Mass, or of some other rite of the Church.147 It is clear that all interpretations of Sacred Scripture are to be referred back to Christ Himself as the one upon whom the entire economy of salvation hinges, though this should be done in light of the specific context of the liturgical celebration. In the homily to be given, care is to be taken so that the light of Christ may shine upon life’s events. Even so, this is to be done so as not to obscure the true and unadulterated word of God: for instance, treating only of politics or profane subjects, or drawing upon notions derived from contemporary pseudo-religious currents as a source.148

[68.] The diocesan Bishop must diligently oversee the preaching of the homily,149 also publishing norms and distributing guidelines and auxiliary tools to the sacred ministers, and promoting meetings and other projects for this purpose so that they may have the opportunity to consider the nature of the homily more precisely and find help in its preparation.

I would say that while the homily is an important component of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (and a requirement for Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation), it does not supercede the proclamation of the Word of God. A priest friend of mine once said in a homily that if people are going to doze off, he would rather they do so while he is preaching than when the Word of God is being proclaimed (the readings and the psalm). He said that God’s word is more important than the homilist’s own interpretation of that word. Nonetheless, the order which occurs in the OP’s parish is not correct, as I read it according to the documents.

 

[dconklin]

We had a priest that would give the “foreword” of each reading so we had a little bit more info before hearing God’s word. This really helped boost my understand and love of Scripture. But he would then give a wonderful homily.

 

[Mimi]

Rec’d this from someone I know at our diocesan offices:

Here’s a good link to the GIRM:
usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml

In addition to the following, ##65-66 of the GIRM, viewed at
usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml#sect3b,
you can also look at the order of the beginning of the Mass, specifically #50, where it specifically states: “After the greeting of the people, the priest, the deacon, or a lay minister may very briefly introduce the faithful to the Mass of the day.”
Since it states that a lay person may very briefly introduce the folks to the Mass of the day, we can be 100% certain that this is not a time for a homily. In fact, the order of the Mass is very clear regarding when the homily is to be preached, that it is never to be omitted on a Sunday, and that it is given only by a deacon, priest or bishop.

Thus, there is not to be any homily at the beginning of Mass. It is to follow the Gospel.

 

[Vince1022]

I’ve been noticing that sometimes the priest (or deacon) will give a talk preceding the 1st reading, then go directly into the Creed after the Gospel.

Is this happening in anyone else’s parish??

I feel we are not getting a homily. Hearing the Word proclaimed is supposed to open our spirit and minds to hearing the words of the priest in the homily (the high point of the Liturgy of the Word after the Gospel).

Unfortunately, people are telling Father they like the Mass this way!

Any suggestions on how I could speak with our pastor about this? He a new arrival, and not newly ordained (though I hear the newer priests are more orthodox).

God bless,
Mimi

What you seem to describe in completely contrary to the Latin Rite Mass. Can you say more? Thanks.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I’ve been noticing that sometimes the priest (or deacon) will give a talk preceding the 1st reading, then go directly into the Creed after the Gospel.

Is this happening in anyone else’s parish??

I feel we are not getting a homily. Hearing the Word proclaimed is supposed to open our spirit and minds to hearing the words of the priest in the homily (the high point of the Liturgy of the Word after the Gospel).

Unfortunately, people are telling Father they like the Mass this way!

Any suggestions on how I could speak with our pastor about this? He a new arrival, and not newly ordained (though I hear the newer priests are more orthodox).

God bless,
Mimi

this is just another example of what became of the Mass. everyone is remaking the Mass as it fit. they have been creating the Mass, changing as they like. i see more and more of this. they no longer purify the vessels and goes on from there. NO Mass has been a thing of constant change.

 

[Mimi]

Vince1022:

What you seem to describe in completely contrary to the Latin Rite Mass. Can you say more? Thanks.

What more CAN I say? You need more details or what? (Just asking; not being cheeky.)

Today’s Mass was in the right order; our Deacon read the Gospel & gave the homily (a very good one, too).

Playing around with the order of the Mass is something I have witnessed other priests do, too. I don’t get to many other parishes, but one that is v close by reeks of incense when you walk in (a good sign ). Some from my parish have left to become members there - it’s even in another diocese (we are on the border with another state). This is not the only problem we’ve had here, but I am hopeful other things will change that were previously allowed (we’ve recently had a change of priest as I mentioned in the OP).

Examples/wish list: Dh & I would like to see more exposition & benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.
A time for recitation of the Rosary. (We tried it for 2 yrs - barely anyone came, but it might have been an awkward time for many to attend.)
More priest involvement (attendance) at parish meetings besides just Liturgy & Council.
More homilies re Life issues (like Fr Pavone does, taking cues from the readings).

Our bishop is kept informed on what goes on here. I feel our corner of the diocese has been a bit neglected in terms of how lax things got before he arrived a few yrs ago.

God bless
Mimi

 

[Vince1022]

Vince1022:

What more CAN I say? You need more details or what? (Just asking; not being cheeky.)

Today’s Mass was in the right order; our Deacon read the Gospel & gave the homily (a very good one, too).

Playing around with the order of the Mass is something I have witnessed other priests do, too. I don’t get to many other parishes, but one that is v close by reeks of incense when you walk in (a good sign ). Some from my parish have left to become members there - it’s even in another diocese (we are on the border with another state). This is not the only problem we’ve had here, but I am hopeful other things will change that were previously allowed (we’ve recently had a change of priest as I mentioned in the OP).

Examples/wish list: Dh & I would like to see more exposition & benediction of the Blessed Sacrament.
A time for recitation of the Rosary. (We tried it for 2 yrs - barely anyone came, but it might have been an awkward time for many to attend.)
More priest involvement (attendance) at parish meetings besides just Liturgy & Council.
More homilies re Life issues (like Fr Pavone does, taking cues from the readings).

Our bishop is kept informed on what goes on here. I feel our corner of the diocese has been a bit neglected in terms of how lax things got before he arrived a few yrs ago.

God bless
Mimi

Thanks. Wow. This seems totally out of place. No homily after the Gospel, on Sundays and Solemnities? Is that what is happening?

If so, that’s a serious problem.

The rosary is not part of liturgy.

Best wishes.

 

[Mimi]

Checking back on responses to my OP and to see the date.

Okay - 5 yrs later & this abuse is still occurring with regularity. I am trying to stay calm and “offer it up”, but do think the problem needs to be corrected since many will be misled to believe that a full homily prior to any of the readings (and sometimes BETWEEN readings) is OKAY and expected.

It sometimes causes confusion, but ‘regulars’ in attendance know that when the pseudo-homily takes place, we remain standing to recite the Creed, and don’t sit.

Do I petition our good Bishop again, or just pray and wait patiently for this problem to be resolved??

The Mass confusion doesn’t usually occur when it is a feast day or when it is the only Mass offered in our city.

Peace,
Mimi

 

[TimothyH]

Five year old thread. Probably best to start a new one but…

The priest is allowed to give a brief introduction before the readings. See paragraph 35 in the GIRM at ccwatershed.org/media/pdfs/13/08/26/12-32-45_0.pdf

A weekday Mass does not require a homily. Nowhere in your posts do you state whether it is a weekday or Sunday Mass.

-Tim-

 

[OraLabora]

Five year old thread. Probably best to start a new one but…

The priest is allowed to give a brief introduction before the readings. See paragraph 35 in the GIRM at ccwatershed.org/media/pdfs/13/08/26/12-32-45_0.pdf

A weekday Mass does not require a homily. Nowhere in your posts do you state whether it is a weekday or Sunday Mass.

-Tim-

She did say there was a creed, which isn’t normally said on a weekday unless it’s a solemnity.

 

[InNomineDomini]

I admire your patience over five years, but I do wonder if it would be better to simply go to another parish. Is that a feasible possibility?

 

[k5thbeatle]

I’ve been noticing that sometimes the priest (or deacon) will give a talk preceding the 1st reading, then go directly into the Creed after the Gospel.

Is this happening in anyone else’s parish??

I feel we are not getting a homily. Hearing the Word proclaimed is supposed to open our spirit and minds to hearing the words of the priest in the homily (the high point of the Liturgy of the Word after the Gospel).

Unfortunately, people are telling Father they like the Mass this way!

Any suggestions on how I could speak with our pastor about this? He a new arrival, and not newly ordained (though I hear the newer priests are more orthodox).

God bless,
Mimi

Having recently relocating we found a new parish nearby and were somewhat surprised that this was how they did it too? He still gives a homily afterwards but it is a summation of the pre readings talk?

 

[KD8TZC]

I’ve seen this at our church too many times (no homily). We only have one priest and one deacon who is also an employee of the church. I asked the good Father about this one week, and he told me that there was a mix-up between him and the deacon on who was to do the homily, and he said while he was in the seminary, he was told it is better to not give a homily that to give a bad one. Maybe that is the case for a weekday mass, but based on what I have read thus far here, I don’t think that is valid according the cannon law.

Also, now the deacon almost says the homily every Sunday. To me, this seems like an excess burden on the deacon. Granted, the deacon gives a great homily each time (better than fathers when he gives them), but I don’t think it is fair that the deacon has to do this (and on weekdays too).